need answers,one of my 1yr old healthy wyondottes died today

[chickon baby]

We are so devastated.We had 3 black and 1 golden laced wyondottes.They turned 1 on April 1st.We turned the tractor shed into a coop,my hubby took 1/4 of it n made nice beds etc.Been that way since we moved them out there last July.This past Sunday he took down the walls to make it bigger.He made nicer beds,nesting boxes and used the same ramp.So instead of 1/4 of the shed they now would have 3/4.Pretty good for only 4 girls.(We were planning on getting more in the spring)Anyway,Sun while my son n hubby worked,I sat out in the "playyard with the girls,they were fine.Monday when I went to open up the coop,they were all sleeping on the floor and not in the new beds.When I checked on them later in the day,Miney was in the 1 nesting beds and did lay a egg.She also seemed to be panting,which they have done when it is warm.We have had a mild summer,70's-80's and the last 3 days it has been more humid n 90's.The old beds were a nice size piece of plywood,with 4 individuals squares but all connected and no top/cover.The new beds are the same but with a plywood piece ontop and up against a wall like the old beds.They now also had a window,which was in there but when he took the wall down,the window would now be next to the beds.Monday night when I tucked em in,they seemed fine.This Am when I went out to let them out and give them the normal:apples,dried oats,seeds and fresh water they were all ok.Then this afternoon my hubby went out to take fresh water and came running back in saying something was wrong.I went out and miney was on the floor,infront of the window and her 3 sisters were all standing there looking at her.She was gone.It was sooo heart breaking.It was so odd to see the other girls with that sad look and my hubby was so so devistated.(His brother had tried for years to get him to get chickens,as he was so sick with cancer my hubby gave in and we got the girls while his brother picked up his last batch of 25,when his brother passed away 6weeks later,my husband found great comfort sitting out in the play yard with the girls and thinking of his brother)These girls have so much meaning to us and esp my poor hubby.In his brothers last days,he would tell everyone,"I finally got my brother to be a chicken farmer" he was so proud of himself for that.So we are not sure what happened to miney.There was no critters in there(IT is more secure than fort knox).There was no obvious injuries.I checked her over real good and could not find anything.So do chicks get stressed enough to die from a remodeling job in the coop? Could she have tried to fly out the closed window? We have a fan in there but not blowing directly on them,just to keep ventilation from the front door/trap door.the walls are 1/2 plywood on the bottom n 1/2 heavy guage wire on top,so there is the breeze.I did give them watermelon on sunday,which theyve had before.we are so confused as to HOW/WHY this happened???Now tonight about a hour after putting them in for the night I went out to check on them and the 3 girls were all on the floor.The stuff in the nesting boxes was rearranged so one or more of them were in them.We did have a shelf up on the wall,incase a critter would get in then they'd have something high to go to.In the old coop they would fly up to that shelf from the beds,which was about 3 feet straight across from the beds,well my hubby never took down that shelf n tonight 1 of the girls tried to fly up there from the floor(abt 5 1/2 feet up from the floor) she didnt make it,so hubby took the shelf down and put it 3 feet of the ground.After he did that she got off my back and onto the shelf..We are sooo confused and trying to figure out what we did wrong.These girls are soo spoiled and so well taken care of,not sure what we did wrong.we also covered the window,thinking perhaps miney looked out n saw her sisters and thought she could get out that way.The window looks out into the fenced play yard.So when you rearrange the bedding shelves,etc does this upset them? Could that have caused her death?I told hubby he needed to put beds up,just like they had in the same area and see what they do,Yepper first thing in the am....We feel horrible,all of them acted fine,ate,drank and played like normal.No signs or symptoms of anything.EENIE,MEENIE and MO are really gonna miss their miney and we are too.We just need to figure out what happened n why,dont want to make the same mistake again.Thanks so much for any help and/or advice.

 

[mypicklebird]

I am sorry for your loss.
I had a hard time combing through your long post, but in summary I see you have had 3 hot days recently, recent remodel of the coop including a window, diet consisting of oats, seeds and fruit, and a sudden death (panting was noticed the day before) 1 year old hen.

Heat stress/exhaustion can definitely kill chickens- over 90 is hard on them, and inside a coop can get much higher than the outside air- especially if there is a glass window.

The diet is bad, if this is all they are getting. Laying hens need free access to laying ration (pellets or crumble) and should also have free choice oyster shell or similar calcium supplement. Seeds/oats/fruit are nice bonus treat, but go light on the seed. Veggies are mostly good, depending on what you have. Free choice green grass grazing is great.

I suppose there could have been a freak accident, flying into the window like you wondered- but chickens are usually pretty tough in terms of flying into things.

An animal sneaking in and harming her would probably leave a trace you could find if you inspected her closely.

Heavy mite/lice infestation could cause death. Look for small insects around the feather bases.

 

[threehorses]

I agree with mypicklebird's post. I'd add that if they're getting solid foods, in addition to their oyster shell they also need some granite grit. And if you feed apples, be sure to core them and feed them (and other non-pellet or mash items) at less than 10% of the total diet. That way your gals are getting complete vitamin fortification from the laying pellets or crumbles.

I'm also concerned whether or not they have access to a run during the day? I agree that coops can get very hot, the air stuffy, and the chickens do best with access to fresh air and shade in a run.

On the roosts, I'm concerned as mypicklebird is about the possibility of mites. Perhaps that's why they're not using their usual roosting type area. You might also have to put them up there at night, literally pick them up from a sleep and put them up there a few times at night. I'd make sure that the roosts are lower - say 3 feet as your husband made one. They're not the brightest creatures, bless them, and sometimes a change in roosts just confuses them - thus the floor sleeping..

I'd also recommend picking up all those girls. Examine them carefully for lice and mites. Remember the parasites are nearly microscopic so you literally have to check every inch of the bird for them. Look not only for them moving, but also for their little clusters of eggs at the base of some feathers. With mites, pick a few nights the next couple of weeks (when you're moving the girls up to their roosts anyway) and check at night (with the coop light on, and a flashlight for extra spot light) for mites as mites will spend days off of the birds but only get on them to eat. Mites can take birds down very quickly, make them anemic, and dehydration can finish off a bird easily in the summer. So check random nights for mites.

If you find any, update the thread here with a new post so we can help you with that. If anything changes, please update THIS post so that those of us who are subscribed and helping you will know something new is happening. Even if it seems unrelated.

I agree that an injury death seems unlikely unless she somehow broke her neck. I'd check all their weights, see if they're of good weight or a little light. Look them over for droppings near their vents, redness there. Feel their abdoment delicately to see if you feel anything strange there.

Also to hedge your bets, it wouldn't hurt to give them some poultry electrolytes in their water a couple of days a week or on hot days. And they could certainly benefit from plain yogurt once in a while. I'd also check your seeds and oats for any mildew if you use them as a treat.

I'm very sorry for your loss, but I hope we can help you figure out how to prevent more.

 

[chickon baby]

To update: The girls all have a big outside area;aka"play-yard" it is about 40 feet x 40feet all fenced with 8feet privacy fence and coop fencing all across the top.It is shaded for 3/4 of the area.The window is in the shaded area.They ALWAYS have the feed to eat,which has the grit and all the needed nutrients.There is no mold on feed/seeds.The apples,oats and seeds are just a extra am treat they like.The front coop is open and there is another open door side door inside the bedding area for them to come and go outside in the play yard, as they wish.I did examine miney and did not see anything that could be mites.I will go to the feed store today and get the powder for the other 3 just in case.They are all weigh about 10lbs,or so.The only other 2 things I did not mention (sorry,we are so distraught over this) 1.it seems like they are molting now,Im not sure if it is because of our wierd weather or a problem?? # 2. When scooping up poo on Tuesday,there was a speck of blood ontop of the white in the ponly a speck and only 1 peice of poo.?? Never saw that before or again.So sorry my post was confusing and to long.Thanks again for the help. PS hubby just went out and put new beds kinda where the old ones were.Hope it helps them.

 

[threehorses]

Well I supposed it's technically possible that they could have coccidiosis, but if their droppings are completely normal, etc, I'd think it more likely that the big of blood might have been something non-coccidial. Could it have been shed intestinal wall like they sometimes shed?

Very perplexing. All the obvious stuff isn't so obvious anymore as they have room, a proper diet, etc. There are sometimes one-off things, heart attacks, deaths caused by something internal that didn't really manifest until just that moment. Particularly with such a quick death, I want to tend towards that being the cause. But if you lose another, definitely consider getting a necropsy. Call ahead now to your vets, or extensions, and see what they need in case it comes up again. That way you'll be prepared (and hopefully never have to use it).

Hopefully also the new roosting will help. Still I'd go out there and put them up a couple of times til they catch on.

THey sound like they have the good life!

 

[patyrdz]

I am so sorry for the loss of miney!

Have you wormed your chickens? That might be something to look at. I worm mine twice a year. Done blame yourself, these things happen. I was wondering if maybe she inhaled some dust from the remodeling??

 

[chickon baby]

Thank you all so much for your help,support and compassion.Since we are new to this Im not sure what coccidiosis is??? What do you do for it? Also how do you worm them?? Ive never done that.I never knew they shed the intestinal lining,how do you know and what do you look for.It was a formed BM,white on top and looked normal except for the small speck of blood. While my hubby and son were working I stayed out in the play yard w/them so they were not around any dust.We were locked out od the coop!!I am very confused about this dusting powder I got today.It is 5% carbaryl "garden n pet dust.I dont know what to do after reading all the warnings;HELP.. Also how do you add your email address below your name?? If anyone has other suggesstions,my email is [email protected] Im not sure how to add it.Thanks again

 

[threehorses]

Coccidiosis is a digestive tract illness caused by protazoa, "cocci". It causes diarrrhea, lethargy, mucous droppings, and at late stages can cause blood in the droppings as the ceca (two blind pouches in the lower part of the intestines) get irritated.

It's most common in babies (which is why you feed babies starter medicated with "amprolium" which is a coccidiostat). Babies get a little medication but not enough to sterilize their systems from cocci. That way they get exposed to the protazoa (which are NOT bacteria) and develop a good deal of immunity to which ever species they "met". (There are 9 species total, three common ones.) That's the action of coccidioSTATS - to inhibit but not kill cocco. When babies or older birds get coccidiosis (the disease "osis" caused by Cocci), then you treat with a stronger dose of amprolium called a coccidioCIDE (cide for killing). Corid is a very good one, water treatment, that treats 9/9 protazoa. Sulmet is a combination antibiotic/coccidiocide that treats 8/9 protazoa. Because it's also an antibiotic, it's harsher on their systems and you want to use it less often. But if you can only get Sulmet and you truly have coccidiosis in the flock, Sulmet is better than naught.

The droppings come in two types: the usual majority of droppings have a solid worm-like portion (the feces), clear fluid in little to larger amounts (the urine), and a white solid-ish crystal like portion usually on top (the urates). Every several droppings, birds will empty their ceca (remember the blind pouches I talked about above) and those droppings will be something like melted chocolate or butterscotch pudding. They are runny and also tend to draw more flies and stink.

The dropping you are describing sounds like a normal droppings with possibly a little bit of the intestinal wall sloughed out in it. But if you see any birds that are all lethargic, runnier droppings, and have the same type of blood - then at least you have to rule out coccidiosis.

It's more common in wet warm conditions, in younger birds. But not unheard of in adults. Keeping things clean and dry, poop out of waterers, etc help to prevent it. Using sand versus soil, horse-stall type compressed shavings versus hay, also help to dry out the environment and help prevent coccidiosis as well as decreasing worm and bacteria issues. (Plus it keeps things hygienic and fresher smelling for both yourself and the chickens.)

By the way, please don't use the carbaryl garden n pet dust. That's Sevin dust. I'd honestly return it and get a 'permethrin' dust. It's much more safe both to you, the environment, and the poultry. Or find a neighbor who might like it. But I think they're even taking it off the market. People have dusted their chickens with that for years, but we also used to use DDT for years....

Incidentally, on the email line - I'd have to look it up. I think I went into my account and adjusted things there?

I'll do it again (as I need to change something) and then PM you.

Please feel free to email me, PM me, anything if you have any questions. And of course the people here are wonderful and helpful and have great answers.