Need help in FL - Advice on City Codes and talking with Code Enforcement

[Kikiriki]

Okay, last point! You can offer to help them create a fair ordinance that ensures BYC's are kept in reasonable places under good conditions (like not in apartments, or must have shelter, controlling quantity, or rooster crowin). This makes them understand they do not have the things other cities have in order to enforce a ban. Also, if they make an ordinance anyone with chickens now is grandfathered in.

 

[Nimby Chickens]

Well, I tried his office several times, no answer. I left a message on his machine. They are supposed to be open until 5pm. We will see if he calls back. In the meantime I am planning to move my chickens to a friend's property until I sort it out. I cannot afford any fines they might make me pay so thank goodness I have such a nice person willing to help me. I will update if he calls back.

 

[Kikiriki]

If he gave you a deadline for today, he may be on his way to inspect. Put the chickens in the house!

 

[Nimby Chickens]

If he gave you a deadline for today, he may be on his way to inspect. Put the chickens in the house!

No, the deadline is tomorrow. I am so glad I checked the mail! I forget constantly.

I REALLY appreciate your help. I am no good with legalese and was having a heck of a time navigating the zoning code website. I could have coded a better website with my eyes closed! They really do not make that information easy to find.

 

[Kikiriki]

Phew! That's good news! It does give you some time to prepare for talking to him, although it is good you have a chicken sitter because it could have to go to the city council. What you need is to show them how other places address animals under the section entitled "Animals" and how they have zoning as a subsection on the main ordinance page. Can you do screen shots of how they have it now and save them? Dont let them pull a fast one a change it.

Anyway, you can show them an ordinance that controls fowl specifically. I opened a new thread asking people to jump in with their own nicely done and fair ordinaces, so hopefully it will get a response.

Make a bullent point list of the reasons their codes are problematic. Have a copy of an ordinance that works...point out that even if they modify the ordinace now, they cannot make you or anyone else get rid of any unusual pets they might have already, so it is to their benefit to make fair and reasonable rules that benefit all!

Finally, i would try to find a pro bono lawyer. This probably could get them a lot of free advertising by speaking to the media. People are all about having our personal freedoms and going up against invasive and controlling goverment rules, so it timely, too. Make some calls to legal offices: they can only say, "No"...

Oh, and I wasnt kidding...it is seriously the worst set up I have ever seen, so it the problem was not you! Typically, a govt body sets out definitions for everything first, like what is and isnt considered agriculture. They are light on definitions which means there is very little meaning in the ordinances: it becomes open to subjective interpretation...like what is considered a pet. Can I have six foot shark in a pool because it is a fish, or does having fish as a pet mean limited to one that is sold in a pet store? A pig is a farm animal, but many people have pet pigs... So which is it? Is it a pet if it is just one or two and livestock if it is three or more, or weighs more than 250 lbs? Exotic animals are also considered pets, but keeping a wolf in the backyard is not the same as having as having a ferret.

Other ordinances do define these things, and specifically address them. Thus, the lack of definition means there rules are unenforcable.

Keep me posted, okay?

 

[Nimby Chickens]

Posting this for my use later: http://blog.mcmurrayhatchery.com/2011/01/25/the-7-false-myths-about-urban-chickens-myths-2-and-3/

These are helpful for arguments against chickens that others might have.

I will keep you updated! You'll know if I hear anything

 

[Cciprnancy]

Nimby, I am so sorry you are having this problem. You are probably aware that Deltona shot down thieir proposed chicken ordinance on Monday. You might want to contact this group. They have a FaceBook group. I believe it is CHICKENS FOR DLTONA.

I live in unincorporated Volusia County and sent you an email last month. If you need a place to hide your chickens, you can bring them here.

Nancy
386-843-1403

 

[Nimby Chickens]

Oh Nancy! I am so sorry to hear that. What can we do? I would love to help out if I can. Is there any recourse?

I am so sorry I didn't respond to your email, I just plumb forgot until just now. I was so happy to get it too, and all this other stuff got in the way.

You are so generous. I will be in touch for sure. I just need to figure this whole thing out, make some choices. Thank you!

 

[wayner123]

Nimby,

I was the one who got the Chickens for Deltona movement kicked off. We are in phase II now after being shot down. But I wanted to reply here and let you know that in researching the surrounding codes, Debary's was by far the most confusing. Kikiriki was spot on there.

However, I don't think that the code enforcement agent could do anything. For one, the code does not even define "farm animals". So for him to tell you that 'livestock/farm animals are not permitted in your zoning district' is bunk. If they were to press you, you could easily show that the code does not define farm animals and even show that dogs and cats are on all farms, are they farm animals too?

Furthermore, they need to cite the part of the code you are not in accordance with, if they were to ever give you a fine. They can't just up and say you have to pay such and such, without due cause. A deputy is not going to be able to do anything unless there is a violation of law. And in this case, there is no law determining it.

Getting rid of the rooster was a good idea, because they could cite you for noise nuisance. According to the Debary ordinance section 10-31.

 

[mystic0222]

We live outside of the city limits in Lake County, Florida, in a residential neighborhood, with a HOA. We are allowed to have chickens here because they are considered pets, they do not fall under the livestock category. We are not allowed to have them as part of a business or "chicken farm", but since they are just going to be our kids pets, that give us eggs, the HOA and code enforcement allows them. I hope it works out for you.