need help with silkie genetics

[aoxa]

is the blue hen one of my silkies mother ?? i know the buff is their dad right ??

Yes

 

[my sunwolf]

Thank you aoxa, I've had a number of Silkies that I could've sworn were Partridge turn out to be Buffs and Reds... and a few that I thought were Buffs end up being Partridge!

Great explanation, love the photos.

 

[farmer boy]

Yes

ya thats what i thought

 

[tadkerson]

Tadkerson,

It is definitely NOT impossible...


So there you are. I had a lot of partridge offspring. Here are my three best out of them.

You can think what you want but they are not true partridge. If you crossed your partridge birds with a partridge wyandotte; the chicks from the cross as adults would not have partridge plumage. Partridge x partridge will only produce partridge. If your birds are partridge, cross a female from the buff x blue cross with a male from the buff x blue cross. All of the offspring should be partridge- but they will not. You will get a variety of colors.

Tim

 

[aoxa]

You can think what you want but they are not true partridge. If you crossed your partridge birds with a partridge wyandotte; the chicks from the cross as adults would not have partridge plumage. Partridge x partridge will only produce partridge. If your birds are partridge, cross a female from the buff x blue cross with a male from the buff x blue cross. All of the offspring should be partridge- but they will not. You will get a variety of colors.

Tim

The OP did not ask if he would get birds that would be pure for partridge. He asked if he could get chicks that were partridge. We're talking about looks, not birds that were never crossed between colours.

Are you arguing that this is not partridge?



Because everyone on the silkie breed/genetic/show thread knows this is a partridge silkie. She may throw chicks that are not partridge, but SHE is still partridge.
Her mother was a blue, and her father was a buff with smutt in the tail and wings. He carried partridge (the rooster) as does the OP's rooster. The OP's rooster has been bred to whites and has produced partridge offspring. Will those offspring only produce partridge? No. But that was not the question that the OP asked. He did not think that the crossing would only produce partridge offspring.

Yes they will produce chicks that are partridge based. It is not impossible.

Also I can not try to cross the two partridge I HAD.

I lost everything in a barn fire, otherwise I would.

 

[tadkerson]

The OP did not ask if he would get birds that would be pure for partridge. He asked if he could get chicks that were partridge. We're talking about looks, not birds that were never crossed between colours.

Are you arguing that this is not partridge?



Because everyone on the silkie breed/genetic/show thread knows this is a partridge silkie. She may throw chicks that are not partridge, but SHE is still partridge.
Her mother was a blue, and her father was a buff with smutt in the tail and wings. He carried partridge (the rooster) as does the OP's rooster. The OP's rooster has been bred to whites and has produced partridge offspring. Will those offspring only produce partridge? No. But that was not the question that the OP asked. He did not think that the crossing would only produce partridge offspring.

Yes they will produce chicks that are partridge based. It is not impossible.

Also I can not try to cross the two partridge I HAD.

I lost everything in a barn fire, otherwise I would.

need help with silkie genetics

This is the title of the string. I am talking genetics. If you want to call the birds partridge go ahead, but genetically they are not partridge.

Quote " i wanted to know what the genetics are like breeding wise" end quote from post # 1.

I gave him the genetics.

Tim

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote: First, let me state that Tim knows his genetics at least as well as, and probably more thoroughly than anyone else on BYC. My initial reaction was the same as in his first post here. You can't make partridge from those varieties. The I looked at the photos of parents and offspring, and started rethinking.

The buff looks to have an e^b base rather than E^Wh, I say this because of his dark comb and that he has a fair amount of black in his tail. Thus he could pass e^b on to the next generation.

Many silkies of all varieties have an e^b base, and I would venture to guess that either or both of the hens are at least heterozygous for it. Whether they also have E or E^R would take test breeding or DNA analysis to determine. Being blue they *should* also be laced, whether they are or not is really difficult to say with silkie feathers, but I would speculate that they might have some of the genetic makeup for lacing (PgMl). So Pg could come from the mother, as well as an additional copy of e^b.

This could give some e^b/e^b Pg/pg+ offspring. The same genotype as these specific parents should not be assumed for all buff or blue silkies , and many would NOT give this outcome. Since the original question is about the offspring of the pictured buff rooster and one of the blue hens, but not the pictured offspring, one cannot assume that they inherited e^b/e^b or Pg. You would only know from breeding outcomes or DNA analysis. The potential might be there, but it also might not.

Mixing buff with other colours can give a lot of strange and semi-unique outcomes as there are a number of "recipes" for a buff bird. Without repeatedly selecting for a consistent phenotype, you are simply randomly experimenting,and will not really have a clue what you have genetically.

If you are trying to breed to the standard, you need to know which varieties share what portions of genotype, and breed accordingly. The easiest and simpliest "multi-variety" breeding is blue, black and splash. Next, and it definitely has its drawbacks, is greys and partridge or possibly buff and red (not recognized in silkies).

Tim, please pick apart my analysis and let me know if my reasoning makes sense Thank you!

 

[aoxa]

First, let me state that Tim knows his genetics at least as well as, and probably more thoroughly than anyone else on BYC. My initial reaction was the same as in his first post here. You can't make partridge from those varieties. The I looked at the photos of parents and offspring, and started rethinking.

The buff looks to have an e^b base rather than E^Wh, I say this because of his dark comb and that he has a fair amount of black in his tail. Thus he could pass e^b on to the next generation.

Many silkies of all varieties have an e^b base, and I would venture to guess that either or both of the hens are at least heterozygous for it. Whether they also have E or E^R would take test breeding or DNA analysis to determine. Being blue they *should* also be laced, whether they are or not is really difficult to say with silkie feathers, but I would speculate that they might have some of the genetic makeup for lacing (PgMl). So Pg could come from the mother, as well as an additional copy of e^b.

This could give some e^b/e^b Pg/pg+ offspring. The same genotype as these specific parents should not be assumed for all buff or blue silkies , and many would NOT give this outcome. Since the original question is about the offspring of the pictured buff rooster and one of the blue hens, but not the pictured offspring, one cannot assume that they inherited e^b/e^b or Pg. You would only know from breeding outcomes or DNA analysis. The potential might be there, but it also might not.

Mixing buff with other colours can give a lot of strange and semi-unique outcomes as there are a number of "recipes" for a buff bird. Without repeatedly selecting for a consistent phenotype, you are simply randomly experimenting,and will not really have a clue what you have genetically.

If you are trying to breed to the standard, you need to know which varieties share what portions of genotype, and breed accordingly. The easiest and simpliest "multi-variety" breeding is blue, black and splash. Next, and it definitely has its drawbacks, is greys and partridge or possibly buff and red (not recognized in silkies).

Tim, please pick apart my analysis and let me know if my reasoning makes sense Thank you!

Thank you for this Sonoran. I do know Tim knows his genetics, but was offput by his "it's impossible" comment.

I know Jason will get confused by all this genetics lingo. He just wanted to know what pretty colours he could get out of the combos he has. I think he has likelihood for all sorts of things.

 

[farmer boy]

ya all i wanted to know if i could get partridge coloring into some chicks and justine isn't the buff rooster i have buff and partridge based ??? since jamie said it could produce partridge offspring ... i am kinda confused with the genetic / breeding i never knew silkies would be so hard to breed lol .. justine , how long has jamie been breeding silkies ???

 

[aoxa]

ya all i wanted to know if i could get partridge coloring into some chicks and justine isn't the buff rooster i have buff and partridge based ??? since jamie said it could produce partridge offspring ... i am kinda confused with the genetic / breeding i never knew silkies would be so hard to breed lol .. justine , how long has jamie been breeding silkies ???

I am not sure, at least 15-20 years.

The rooster carries partridge, according to him.