Need some encouragement please

[orrpeople]

So, apparently the vet I spoke with who was sure my symptoms could only be Marek's was wrong. The bird I sent in for necropsy came back as a bacterial infection, which has so many of the same symptoms - wasting away, lameness, not eating, sudden death...
But I want to say how much I've learned from all of you, and how much I respect you and your care for your flocks. Your thoughtful responses and your compassion gave me so much hope as I awaited the results. You are tenacious, educated, and merciful. Thank you.

 

[casportpony]

So, apparently the vet I spoke with who was sure my symptoms could only be Marek's was wrong. The bird I sent in for necropsy came back as a bacterial infection, which has so many of the same symptoms - wasting away, lameness, not eating, sudden death...
But I want to say how much I've learned from all of you, and how much I respect you and your care for your flocks. Your thoughtful responses and your compassion gave me so much hope as I awaited the results. You are tenacious, educated, and merciful. Thank you.

Thanks for the update. Any chance you could share the necropsy report?

 

[orrpeople]

For some reason I can't get the file to attach, but I will write the findings - the parenthetical statements are my own.
1. Coelomic cavity: severe coelomitis
2. Intestinal tract: diffuse enteropathy (small intestine disease)
3. Liver: hepatitis (suspected)

The cause of clinical signs and death in this chicken is attributed to severe coelomitis. Bacterial cultures and histopathology are pending to identify a bacterial cause. (My own note here - E.Coli keeps cropping up in my research. Ugh.) The oviduct appeared normal so it doesn't appear as though a salpingitis (oviduct inflammation) lead to the coelomitis, which is commonly the cause. It's possible that there was some type of enteropathy(small interesting disease) such as enteritis (bacterial inflammation of the small intestine) from parasites or other organism, which could have resulted in coelomitis. Histopathology of the intestine and other systems is pending to further characterise the abnormalities.

I have also learned that chickens with coelomitis can suffer strokes, or slowly waste away (these are more likely to be treated with antibiotics and anti inflammatory meds for recovery). I am having a difficult time, without my own cultures, trying to pin point the infection. We had a particularly hot summer, so consequently ran an evaporative cooler and misters constantly. I have also been using pine chips from a tree we took down which possibly also has bacteria... it's a witch hunt around here.

 

[orrpeople]

They're running bacterial aerobic cultures of the liver and coelomic cavity and a trachea swab for influenza (I think this one is routine for every chicken necropsy).

 

[rebrascora]

@orrpeople

Many thanks for taking the trouble to type all that out in order to share it with us.

I may be a bit obsessed with Marek's but I am a little sceptical of it being ruled out just because some other illness is found. As you will be aware Marek's compromises the immune system which leaves birds vulnerable to secondary infection like coccidiosis, e coli, respiratory infections etc. These are things that their bodies are exposed to in everyday life and should have resistance/tolerance to. An overgrowth suggests their immune system may not be doing it's job. I also wonder if the lameness is attributed to these diseases because birds presented for necropsy had exhibited that symptom and the bacterial overgrowth is detected....over time one is associated with the other and further tests are not conducted that might identify Marek's because that incurs more expense and a causation of death has already been identified. Not sure if any of that makes sense, but I read a lot about coccidiosis causing lameness, which I find hard to understand. Weakness, yes, but not lameness.... Of course I am not medically qualified, so these are purely my thoughts, but knowing how widespread Marek's is and how many different guises it has, I am very aware how easy it is to grasp at the simple diagnosis and perhaps not look further.

Anyway, just my 2cents worth.

Regards

Barbara

 

[orrpeople]

@orrpeople

Many thanks for taking the trouble to type all that out in order to share it with us.

I may be a bit obsessed with Marek's but I am a little sceptical of it being ruled out just because some other illness is found. As you will be aware Marek's compromises the immune system which leaves birds vulnerable to secondary infection like coccidiosis, e coli, respiratory infections etc. These are things that their bodies are exposed to in everyday life and should have resistance/tolerance to. An overgrowth suggests their immune system may not be doing it's job. I also wonder if the lameness is attributed to these diseases because birds presented for necropsy had exhibited that symptom and the bacterial overgrowth is detected....over time one is associated with the other and further tests are not conducted that might identify Marek's because that incurs more expense and a causation of death has already been identified. Not sure if any of that makes sense, but I read a lot about coccidiosis causing lameness, which I find hard to understand. Weakness, yes, but not lameness.... Of course I am not medically qualified, so these are purely my thoughts, but knowing how widespread Marek's is and how many different guises it has, I am very aware how easy it is to grasp at the simple diagnosis and perhaps not look further.

Anyway, just my 2cents worth.

Regards

Barbara

Yeah, I think I tend to address these findings with "cautious optimism" - I'm certainly keeping a closed flock until something else is found. None of my birds showed lameness as a symptom, I just was writing the shared symptoms. We didn't have a neurological component here, primarily it was birds not eating, not having the energy to get on the roost, and/or sudden death. I'm definitely watching and waiting though.

 

[Engine823]

So, apparently the vet I spoke with who was sure my symptoms could only be Marek's was wrong. The bird I sent in for necropsy came back as a bacterial infection, which has so many of the same symptoms - wasting away, lameness, not eating, sudden death...
But I want to say how much I've learned from all of you, and how much I respect you and your care for your flocks. Your thoughtful responses and your compassion gave me so much hope as I awaited the results. You are tenacious, educated, and merciful. Thank you.

The UK Vet Diagnostic Center sent a copy of the necropsy results to the vet I took Emily too at first. He called me and went over the Necropsy report with me. He said that even though it stated either Mareck's or Avian Leukosis he said based on the location of the tumors found inside her and also the tumor on her back he felt it was less likely to be Mareck's and more likely to have been Avian Leukosis.
Thought you all would want to know the latest