Neighborhood dogs keep killing chickens

[blucoondawg]

You can and are choosing to keep your stock any way you like... but its not working is it?.. Your birds are getting killed and you are having problems with dogs on your land.

My birds are in safe if a big dog proof run.. they free range when I am at home. I have no problems with dogs killing them anymore....

I don't have to worry or stress about it.. I don't have to get into arguments with the neighbours and I don't have to buy guns and ammo. I don't have to waste my time shooting dogs and hiding the evidence... I don't understand why anyone would like to do things that way.

Sure you kill some neighbours dogs.. and dispose of them so know one knows what you did... but then more dogs will come.. neighbours will buy more dogs.. or they will come from somewhere else... and also other predators.. so you will always be loosing birds, getting upset, loosing money.. having to buy more ammo and kill more animals.. its a vicious circle.

It is working just fine for me, I don't have problems with predation from dogs because I don't tolerate it and remove the problem. People do not need to house their chickens in a dog proof run people can raise their stock as they like, I don't worry about buying guns and ammo because I have plenty and always will and as far as wasting my time shooting a dog, my preferred bullet travels about 3000 feet per second, I figure that's time well spent. As far as a dog attack being an act of God, you make jabs at me to pray and whatnot, you are ignorant, I am not even a religious person but I know this much, a predator attack from a wild animal happens at the whim of a wild animal, that is considered an act of God as far as I'm concerned much the same as if you hit a deer that jumps out in front of your car your insurance company considers it as such and does not necessarily raise your rates for getting in an accident as they would had you been at fault hitting another car, wild animals will do as they will no matter what, dogs on the other hand have a human keeper, said dog attacking your chickens is not an act of God but rather an act of a person who has no respect for the property of others in letting that dog run property in which he has no business. You did in fact tell me how to run my property by stating that anyone who doesn't build strong dog proof fences is lazy. I also do not hide a darn thing from anyone, if I have to shoot a dog I immediately call the sheriff's department and report the situation, they will come and investigate the situation finding I was completely withing my legal right to protect my livestock and proceed to levy the proper fines against the offending dog owner. I don't know how things work in Thailand but here in rural America a person still has a right to run his outfit the way he sees fit on his own property. How is ranging a flock on a 40 acre property any different than ranging cattle on a 40 acre property? Are we supposed to keep cattle in dog kennels to keep them safe from roaming dogs when a single strand electric wire fence will contain cattle just fine?

 

[blucoondawg]

A secure coop for night yes, that I do consider a good investment as it's the most prevalent time for predator attacks from wild animals. A secure run is a good idea to have so you have the option to keep them in when you know there has been a predator around preying on the chickens until which time the issue can be resolved by killing the predator and then resume business as usual, free ranging or whatever you want to do.
If they get another dog and continue to allow their dogs to run then I guess they will continue losing dogs and getting fines from law enforcement.
To answer your question if people lose birds to dogs do I feel they are housing their birds wrong, no I do not. I feel they have a dog problem which they are entitled legally in most areas to eradicate. Dogs are by far the worst chicken predator there is they kill for fun or maybe they're just playing without the intention to kill but they kill none the less and will kill every one of your birds they can get a hold of at the time. Most problem dogs are of a larger breed that is stronger, larger than most any wild predator, lacks the fear of humans and quite possibly has already learned how to get around any protections that are in place. The dog will likely continue to return every chance they get because they know there are chickens there. Are there losses to wild animals? Sure but in my experience a secure coop over night will prevent the overwhelming majority of those

 

[jak2002003]

A secure coop for night yes, that I do consider a good investment as it's the most prevalent time for predator attacks from wild animals. A secure run is a good idea to have so you have the option to keep them in when you know there has been a predator around preying on the chickens until which time the issue can be resolved by killing the predator and then resume business as usual, free ranging or whatever you want to do.
If they get another dog and continue to allow their dogs to run then I guess they will continue losing dogs and getting fines from law enforcement.
To answer your question if people lose birds to dogs do I feel they are housing their birds wrong, no I do not. I feel they have a dog problem which they are entitled legally in most areas to eradicate. Dogs are by far the worst chicken predator there is they kill for fun or maybe they're just playing without the intention to kill but they kill none the less and will kill every one of your birds they can get a hold of at the time. Most problem dogs are of a larger breed that is stronger, larger than most any wild predator, lacks the fear of humans and quite possibly has already learned how to get around any protections that are in place. The dog will likely continue to return every chance they get because they know there are chickens there. Are there losses to wild animals? Sure but in my experience a secure coop over night will prevent the overwhelming majority of those

I agree 100 percent with everything you said here!

Sorry about all the arguments. Sometimes meanings of the things we write come across wrong.. rather than in real life.

When I first moved here I had feral dogs coming onto my property. They killed many of my guinea fowl.. which I used to let roost in the trees.

When I penned them up with the chickens the dogs ripped into the coop through the thick wire.

After patching it up with metal sheeting and strong wood.. they still got in.

They were silent and came as a pack in the dead of night. If I went out to scare them off they were really aggressive... not scared of people.. and would not back down easily.. growing and charging at me.

I walled and fenced in my land.. something which I wanted to do anyway to stop people coming and stealing our fruit and stop our own 2 small dogs getting out. Street dogs still got in by digging under fencing or climbing over 6 foot high walls.

I lost many chickens and all my guinea fowl over several months... and I wasted a lot of money and time trying to make my existing coop secure.

That's why, about one year ago, I decided to really make a good quality run and coop.. concrete base and sheet metal.. with thick chain link mesh.

The dogs still came back... for a few weeks.. until they gave up trying to get into the coop. Once they realise they have no chance of getting to the animals they go some place else.

Where I live its probably very different to you.... there seem to be hundreds of feral and street dogs in my village... the culture here is to let they all roam around free, like people do with cats in the West. Many of the dogs are looked after by monks at the temple near me. If I shot them.. or poisoned them... I would have been in real trouble and isolated myself form the community... so killing them was not an option... (and I don't like killing anything s you guessed).

That's the reason I tell people the most effecting way to stop problems with dogs / predators is secure pens / coops.

I have also met people who put their birds in real danger.. because they have no real housing for them.. either letting them sleep in trees or under the house. Then they get upset when things kill the birds.

 

[centrarchid]

I have kept chickens truely free-range longer than most. My birds are valuable for more than simply meat and table-egg production. The games in particular are far above average when comes to avoiding predators like dogs and even wildlife. I still keep some free-range and experience losses but can easily sustain those losses even with closed flocks (no replacement birds are purchased). Even so, with less capable breeds more typical of the back yard setting, at least some measure of protection coming in the form of fencing and pens/coops is used to at least slow predators including dogs. I have a day job and flocks are not all in one location, especially where walks are taken into account.

It would be nice if everyone contained their dogs although that is not current reality. Experience has taught be the more balanced approach with at least some protection is the way to go. I have and probably will continue to kill livestock killing dogs but the overriding reality is that some protection of even free-range flocks reduces frequency and magnitude of losses plus generally buys me time to react effectively to save my stock.

My area has a lot of people with chickens and many are free-ranged and my job as well as hobby puts me into frequent contact with such parties. Job puts me in contact with people throughout much of our state. The majority of the free-range flocks are what I would call (stock, grow and take borrowing from fisheries terminology). They buy birds, usually from some commercial hatchery, raise them up, get some meat and egg production and then get wiped out. This can occur repeatedly until they either give up on chickens altogether, or they start upgrading their containment. Some of these poultry keepers are the piss-vinegar and "I am badder than any one or any dog" types when defending their flocks. This often has a bone-headed / stubborn component as well. That approach does not appear to increase odds their flocks will persist longer or that they will stay in chickens longer. Parties that do stay in chickens longer begin investing up front in protection measures that work even when poultry owner is not home. Those same owners are also more likely to be effective in responding to something like dog attacks because dogs stay longer because containment used to protect chickens. A poultry killing dog is easier to kill when the following is realized; the dog, you, and a rifle are present in the same location.

This ultimately is a something I think could be answered by an accurate survey of past and current poultry keepers. The past component should not be overlooked as the ratio of short time poultry keepers will be much larger in relation to long-term keepers than what the current ratio between nubies and expereinced poultry keepers would indicate. Survey results I predict will indicate duration of poultry keeping as well as bird longevity will be correlated with investment in confinement and other non-lethal (at least no firearms) predator management practices.

 

[blucoondawg]

I agree 100 percent with everything you said here!

Sorry about all the arguments.  Sometimes meanings of the things we write come across wrong.. rather than in real life.

When I first moved here I had feral dogs coming onto my property.  They killed many of my guinea fowl.. which I used to let roost in the trees.

When I penned them up with the chickens the dogs ripped into the coop through the thick wire.

After patching it up with metal sheeting and strong wood.. they still got in.

They were silent and came as a pack in the dead of night.  If I went out to scare them off they were really aggressive... not scared of people.. and would not back down easily.. growing and charging at me. 

I walled and fenced in my land.. something which I wanted to do anyway to stop people coming and stealing our fruit and stop our own 2 small dogs getting out.  Street dogs still got in by digging under fencing or climbing over 6 foot high walls.

I lost many chickens and all my guinea fowl over several months... and I wasted a lot of money and time trying to make my existing coop secure.

That's why, about one year ago, I decided to really make a good quality run and coop.. concrete base and sheet metal.. with thick chain link mesh.

The dogs still came back... for a few weeks.. until they gave up trying to get into the coop. Once they realise they have no chance of getting to the animals they go some place else.  

Where I live its probably very different to you.... there seem to be hundreds of feral and street dogs in my village... the culture here is to let they all roam around free, like people do with cats in the West.  Many of the dogs are looked after by monks at the temple near me.  If I shot them.. or poisoned them... I would have been in real trouble and isolated myself form the community... so killing them was not an option... (and I don't like killing anything s you guessed).

That's the reason I tell people the most effecting way to stop problems with dogs / predators is secure pens / coops. 

I have also met people who put their birds in real danger.. because they have no real housing for them.. either letting them sleep in trees or under the house.  Then they get upset when things kill the birds.

Yes feral dogs would be a big problem luckily we don't have that just roamers from people being careless or the occasional hunting dog that wanders by. Known feral dogs won't last long here. There have in the past been dogs dumped off from people who apparently didn't want them anymore, if they behave themselves they get a pass and the sheriff's deputy can come get them and take them to the pound.
Straying cats are another thing entirely, I have never had a cat get a chicken that I know of but I strongly disagree with anyone letting cats outside and when one comes onto my property it doesn't leave. The only time I find an outdoor cat acceptable is on farm situations where there is a serious need for rodent control. Cats are killing machines of song birds and small animals, they're getting to be an invasive species in some areas most towns are loaded with strays. Our state did try passing law to make legal shooting of stay cats on site due to the numbers of strays in some areas but of course that was shot down by the Democrats. What if someone shoots poor fluffy? Simple solution keep your stupid cat in the house where it belongs and it won't get shot.

 

[Jesusfreak101]

Blucoondawg my cats stay outside they guard our chickens and the chicks so there are other reasons to have cats outside. They keep the feral cats away from then hens and the field mice down.

 

[blucoondawg]

I have kept chickens truely free-range longer than most. My birds are valuable for more than simply meat and table-egg production. The games in particular are far above average when comes to avoiding predators like dogs and even wildlife. I still keep some free-range and experience losses but can easily sustain those losses even with closed flocks (no replacement birds are purchased). Even so, with less capable breeds more typical of the back yard setting, at least some measure of protection coming in the form of fencing and pens/coops is used to at least slow predators including dogs. I have a day job and flocks are not all in one location, especially where walks are taken into account.

It would be nice if everyone contained their dogs although that is not current reality. Experience has taught be the more balanced approach with at least some protection is the way to go. I have and probably will continue to kill livestock killing dogs but the overriding reality is that some protection of even free-range flocks reduces frequency and magnitude of losses plus generally buys me time to react effectively to save my stock.

My area has a lot of people with chickens and many are free-ranged and my job as well as hobby puts me into frequent contact with such parties. Job puts me in contact with people throughout much of our state. The majority of the free-range flocks are what I would call (stock, grow and take borrowing from fisheries terminology). They buy birds, usually from some commercial hatchery, raise them up, get some meat and egg production and then get wiped out. This can occur repeatedly until they either give up on chickens altogether, or they start upgrading their containment. Some of these poultry keepers are the piss-vinegar and "I am badder than any one or any dog" types when defending their flocks. This often has a bone-headed / stubborn component as well. That approach does not appear to increase odds their flocks will persist longer or that they will stay in chickens longer. Parties that do stay in chickens longer begin investing up front in protection measures that work even when poultry owner is not home. Those same owners are also more likely to be effective in responding to something like dog attacks because dogs stay longer because containment used to protect chickens. A poultry killing dog is easier to kill when the following is realized; the dog, you, and a rifle are present in the same location.

This ultimately is a something I think could be answered by an accurate survey of past and current poultry keepers. The past component should not be overlooked as the ratio of short time poultry keepers will be much larger in relation to long-term keepers than what the current ratio between nubies and expereinced poultry keepers would indicate. Survey results I predict will indicate duration of poultry keeping as well as bird longevity will be correlated with investment in confinement and other non-lethal (at least no firearms) predator management practices.

I never said one shouldn't have a secure area for chickens, if I recall my first response in this thread to the op was something along the lines of fix your coop up and kill the dogs. I have simply been responding to those comments who make it sound as free ranging is not an option. It is a option and can be very good should you choose to do it. I too keep a fairly large mixed flock and will take some losses on rare occasion though mostly from raptors in the fall one leaves are down

 

[Trefoil]

To me the issue isn't about property rights,, its about what I can reasonably control. Neighbors should absolutely keep their dogs home, but if they don't its my birds they kill,not theirs. That's where the saying "good fences make good neighbors" comes from.

 

[blucoondawg]

Blucoondawg my cats stay outside they guard our chickens and the chicks so there are other reasons to have cats outside. They keep the feral cats away from then hens and the field mice down.

That's fine if they stay on your property and you are ok with them killing things other than field mice and I'm sure they do. That is highly frowned upon by most around here and strays are shot on it a regular basis whenever they appear so it's never been a huge deal in this area. We do have a couple farms in the area but there must be a good enough rodent load in all the buildings to keep the cats close to home as you never see them wandering out from the barns and immediate yard. I really don't feel house cats are a huge threat to chickens unless you have banties or small chicks, it's just the killing of wildlife, invasive species end of it I disagree with, many of these cats aren't fixed and can populate an area with a feral population in a hurry

 

[blucoondawg]

To me the issue isn't about property rights,, its about what I can reasonably control. Neighbors should absolutely keep their dogs home, but if they don't its my birds they kill,not theirs. That's where the saying "good fences make good neighbors" comes from.

Lol, ya but there again good fences make good neighbors only when one of the neighbors isn't a major douche. Where I'm at we don't have really close neighbors as one would in town, everyone knows everyone simply because we've all been here a long time and everybody gets along or is even friendly with each other except for one and he is also the one who can't seem to contain his horses or dogs. Funny how everyone gets along but everyone also hates him yet to hear him tell it he's just a poor misunderstood guy and everyone picks on him. There is no fence on Earth that makes him a good neighbor.