New Coop Plans

[KettermanHillCoop]

I appreciate that. These comments, albeit some of them "hard", are very very helpful. Life isnt always sugar coated though, back to the drawing board to re-work a few of the details which will hopefully make my plans stand out above the rest!

Believe me...newbies like me need good information out there! Go get 'em!

 

[blackdog043]

Seriously, brilliant idea. I can simply double all of my current measurements. I can even keep the current models but have those all under small models, and use the doubled up versions as the medium designs. Everything will be twice as big(vents, etc) and twice as good!

I was actually thinking about adding the "depending on breed size"...I think that is a good add.

Yes to all of the above! If the person has a mixed flock, like myself "depending on breed size", is a good add on.

 

[Mr Pink]

Believe me...newbies like me need good information out there! Go get 'em!

That comment right there is why ( if it was my web site ) I would not be afraid to list the very information about recommended sq footage per chicken on the site ...give an example and let customers decide what they need

 

[nychick83]

That comment right there is why ( if it was my web site ) I would not be afraid to list the very information about recommended sq footage per chicken on the site ...give an example and let customers decide what they need

Yep - I am going to add an article about chicken math using the 4sq ft per coop and 10sq ft per run. I already give the sq ft of each coop, but I think the additional info about chicken math will be appreciated by visitors.

 

[Ruralhideaway]

Just a quick observation. I so enjoy my walk in coop and run. Being able to comfortably interact with and observe my birds makes them enjoyable and gives me the opportunity to be on the ball with any problems that might arise.

The raised coop designs, even when they are actually adequate for the chickens, never make accommodations for keeper interactions. Full height runs at the least allow for proper care. I also don't believe under coop area should be counted as run square footage.

 

[kitkat5505]

Another thing I would add in the description is both the coop size and the run size. I had a hard time determining which you meant in the descriptions when it would say something like 32sq ft total, it doesn’t say if that was coop plus run or just the coop. As you’ve seen here, chicken people can be passionate about how much area their chickens need, so info like that is important.

 

[aart]

Most of the space requirements have already been addressed here before I could post back so Im not going to rehash any of that .... I have no skin in this game only commented on what I thought might be a future problem for your reputation nychick !

Prefab coops have three MAJOR problems that makes most every experienced chicken person steer newbies away # 1 Poor designs #2 cheap material and workmanship and #3 OVER RATED BIRD CAPACITY ! If you don't mind your business being considered just another misrepresenting chicken coop company it's certainly no money out of my pocket HOWEVER you asked the opinion of people on this board who can potentially sway the choice of hundreds if not thousands of your potential customers ... I'd choose wisely on taking their advice !

Yes, 1&2 is what set me off.

I am a life long marketing skeptic, huge fan of function over form, and far less diplomatic than others here. Honest critique is not criticism, tho my delivery could be justly and truly criticized.

I looked at your other posts here, back in April and then October, and saw nothing about asking for feedback on actual coop design, just pricing(and naming of coops) of plans. I never really thought you were a big company. Plenty of individuals out there selling plans (of coops that are too small), it's huge fad and many are capitalizing on it and have cruised thru BYC trying to sell. That is what formed my impression.

I even asked to see coops, but got no response.

Can we see the coops?
Might be easier to name with a visual prompt.

Anyway, I applaud your willingness to listen and change some things. I am truly sorry you didn't have the coop designs reviewed prior to spending the time and money to have them detailed. The website is fantastic ....the illustrations, animations are great...price point for plans could actually be raised IMO(and that might help cover the changes you need to make). I know the cost of design and detailing, did it for a living for 2 decades.

So some gentler advice based on real life experience, reading this forum for 4 years(I spent 6-9 months reading here and planning my coop before building) and documented in notes I have taken.

Your smaller coops/runs could be OK as is with changes in population,
the 4/10 rule is a minimum. You might add plans for larger coops. 8x8, 8x16, etc.

Ventilation can be tricky, especially on small coops, hard to make blank suggestions.

I really think you should show the roosts in your designs, while designing and in the plans, coops can look great until you add roosts and realize the functional traffic jam you might have.

Roosts should be 12" from walls and 12" in length per bird.
Height of roosts can depend on width of coop, they need landing area to jump down. Floor space of coop also needs to take into consideration room for feed and water.

Here's my theory on the 'stack up' aspect to coop design:
Bottom of pop door is best about 8" above floor so bedding doesn't get dragged out of coop.

Nice to have bottom of nests about 18" above bedding to allow use of that floor space under them(doesn't count if your nests are mounted on outside of coop).

Roosts are best about 12" higher than nests so birds won't roost(sleep) in nests and poop in them, if you use poop boards under roosts it will also 'stretch' your floor space.

Upper venting works best as high as possible above roosts so no strong drafts hit roosts in winter...and hot/moist air and ammonia can rise and exit coop.


And Go Big ...3 separate sections for Main flock, Growout/broody/isolation/hospital, and Feed/supply storage has made my chicken life much easier. Actually wish I had made grow-out area larger(for ease of tending) and had 1 or 2 more sections.

 

[nychick83]

Yes, 1&2 is what set me off.

I am a life long marketing skeptic, huge fan of function over form, and far less diplomatic than others here. Honest critique is not criticism, tho my delivery could be justly and truly criticized.

I looked at your other posts here, back in April and then October, and saw nothing about asking for feedback on actual coop design, just pricing(and naming of coops) of plans. I never really thought you were a big company. Plenty of individuals out there selling plans (of coops that are too small), it's huge fad and many are capitalizing on it and have cruised thru BYC trying to sell. That is what formed my impression.

I even asked to see coops, but got no response.


Anyway, I applaud your willingness to listen and change some things. I am truly sorry you didn't have the coop designs reviewed prior to spending the time and money to have them detailed. The website is fantastic ....the illustrations, animations are great...price point for plans could actually be raised IMO(and that might help cover the changes you need to make). I know the cost of design and detailing, did it for a living for 2 decades.

So some gentler advice based on real life experience, reading this forum for 4 years(I spent 6-9 months reading here and planning my coop before building) and documented in notes I have taken.

Your smaller coops/runs could be OK as is with changes in population,
the 4/10 rule is a minimum. You might add plans for larger coops. 8x8, 8x16, etc.

Ventilation can be tricky, especially on small coops, hard to make blank suggestions.

I really think you should show the roosts in your designs, while designing and in the plans, coops can look great until you add roosts and realize the functional traffic jam you might have.

Roosts should be 12" from walls and 12" in length per bird.
Height of roosts can depend on width of coop, they need landing area to jump down. Floor space of coop also needs to take into consideration room for feed and water.

Here's my theory on the 'stack up' aspect to coop design:
Bottom of pop door is best about 8" above floor so bedding doesn't get dragged out of coop.

Nice to have bottom of nests about 18" above bedding to allow use of that floor space under them(doesn't count if your nests are mounted on outside of coop).

Roosts are best about 12" higher than nests so birds won't roost(sleep) in nests and poop in them, if you use poop boards under roosts it will also 'stretch' your floor space.

Upper venting works best as high as possible above roosts so no strong drafts hit roosts in winter...and hot/moist air and ammonia can rise and exit coop.


And Go Big ...3 separate sections for Main flock, Growout/broody/isolation/hospital, and Feed/supply storage has made my chicken life much easier. Actually wish I had made grow-out area larger(for ease of tending) and had 1 or 2 more sections.

Art - thanks for the response. I really do appreciate it and am looking to make these long-standing and functional plans. I am re-working them to consider all of your comments, especially those on vents and roosts. I am also going to have 3 new large designs made, which will incorporate all comments from this entire thread. A few of you, including yourself, have provided some very useful and specific measurements which I can easily incorporate.

On another note, apologies for being so defensive. I put alot into this whole project so I hope you can understand my initial feelings. I hope to be a positive contributor on this forum for years to come!

Best,
Maria

 

[lazy gardener]

My goal/dream is to have the #1 chicken coop plan site on the internet.

You could do so, by observing many of the recommendations made here.

@cholland - thank you. You know, didnt even think of the wheel idea...GREAT idea, I am going to look into it right away. I really appreciate it, this is more of the feedback I was hoping for .

I am re-working the numbers now, it seems 3sq feet is simply not a good number, I am going to use 4sq feet and re-do the bird capacity numbers. Clearly, this is the one major thing I did not get right and need to fix.

Glad you have heard us, and are making appropriate changes. Re: wheels: tractors are certainly useful, but in the long run, they are often so bulky to move that they become impractical.

I'm glad to hear that! Also please calculate capacity using a minimum of 10 sq ft of run per bird!

Ditto

In your capacity, you might want to put (as an example) 4 - 8 chickens depending on the breed size.

I believe that capacity needs to be far more specific. Capacity should be based on the smallest size of the coop/run. In other words, a coop/run that is 24 s.f. in coop, with 48 s.f. of run size should only be rated for 4 chickens. Increase that run to 60 s.f. or more, and it could be rated for 6 LF chickens. Capacity should state: appropriate for 6 LF or ?bantams. (I don't keep bantams, so am not qualified to recommend s.f. for bantams. Don't be ambiguous here. The people using your plans will be the people who are least educated. Depending on size of the bird is an ambiguous statement. A newbie would consider that her choice of a 5# sex link is a small bird, compared to a 8# Brahma. In reality, we need to be comparing a 5 - 10# LF to a 2 - 3# bantam.

In the interest of newbies and their chickens, I think it would be better to be as specific as possible and state the square footage of coop and run and also say how many large fowl it fits max and how many bantams max.

ditto.

I was actually thinking about adding the "depending on breed size"...I think that is a good add.

Here is a question back to those of you who are very experienced - lets assume the coop itself is 4x8, making it 32 sq feet. It also has a built in run that is 12x6 (72 sq feet). What would the proper chicken math be? Would 4-6 avg size chickens be a fair estimate?

Breed size is too ambiguous, especially when dealing with chicken keeper wannabees. The coop/run size you are suggesting would only be appropriate for 7 LF birds, assuming that the nest boxes were a side car affair, and did not take up any space inside the coop footprint. Also, make nest boxes appropriate in number and size. Absolute minimum size is 12 x 12 x 15. Did you know that a hen stands up when she lays her egg?????????? Also, look at community nest boxes. For single boxes, general recommendation is one box per 4 hens.

The raised coop designs, even when they are actually adequate for the chickens, never make accommodations for keeper interactions. Full height runs at the least allow for proper care. I also don't believe under coop area should be counted as run square footage.

YES! And the raised coop design is totally not appropriate for snow country. It simply does not allow enough space for bedding, perches, nest boxes and ventilation to be at appropriate height. I think 18" is a bare minimum. Did you know that chickens must be able to have plenty of room above their heads as they perch, or their respiration will freeze and condense on the ceiling of the coop if it's too close, then the birds will surely get frost bite on their combs???

Another thing I would add in the description is both the coop size and the run size. I had a hard time determining which you meant in the descriptions when it would say something like 32sq ft total, it doesn’t say if that was coop plus run or just the coop. As you’ve seen here, chicken people can be passionate about how much area their chickens need, so info like that is important.

Yep.

Here's my theory on the 'stack up' aspect to coop design:
Bottom of pop door is best about 8" above floor so bedding doesn't get dragged out of coop.

Nice to have bottom of nests about 18" above bedding to allow use of that floor space under them(doesn't count if your nests are mounted on outside of coop).

Roosts are best about 12" higher than nests so birds won't roost(sleep) in nests and poop in them, if you use poop boards under roosts it will also 'stretch' your floor space.

Upper venting works best as high as possible above roosts so no strong drafts hit roosts in winter...and hot/moist air and ammonia can rise and exit coop.

8 + 18 + 15 + 12 + 18 = 71 / 12 = 6' of floor to ceiling space required as a minimum for good coop design, especially in the north. Without that floor to ceiling space, it is also impossible to provide adequate venting. (recommendation is for 10% of floor space or 1 s.f./bird)

And Go Big ...3 separate sections for Main flock, Growout/broody/isolation/hospital, and Feed/supply storage has made my chicken life much easier. Actually wish I had made grow-out area larger(for ease of tending) and had 1 or 2 more sections.

Finally, my recommendation: do not leave the interior placement of perch up to the customer. Plan the coop appropriately, and place the perch(es) making allowances for optimal use of space under perch, possibly under nest boxes. If a customer is purchasing your plan, it needs to be complete. Your market audience (I am in no way meaning to be insulting here, just factual) is the customer who is not able to make their own plans. Most likely that customer does not have an understanding of the needs of a chicken. Many of your customers may have never even touched a chicken or seen one up close! They are paying for your design b/c they expect YOU to have an understanding of the needs of their chickens.

Second finally: take a close look at the "Woods" coop. You would do well to design a woods style coop, with the coop portion being sold as a single unit, and the "add on" run component as the second portion. Market this design for the northern flock master, and you will see immediate sales. Make all windows so that they can be hinged at the top. No double hung. Make your windows big enough to actually do some good. (yet an other reason for having increased floor to ceiling space.) Make all vents louvered, unless they are soffit vents, which can be as simple as using heavy duty staples or lath to attach 1/2" hdw cloth to underside of rafters.

Third finally: make your units standard size: so that a purchased run would easily interface with any coop.

I do hope you are feeling a bit less attacked this morning. There's a fine balance between stating what is best for the flock without hurting the feelings of the flock owner. And, I will be up front and state that I almost always shoot from the hip, and approach all of my advice based on what I perceive as being in the best interests of the animal.

 

[nminusyplusm]

x2 what aart and lazy gardener said:

8 + 18 + 15 + 12 + 18 = 71 / 12 = 6' of floor to ceiling space required as a minimum for good coop design, especially in the north. Without that floor to ceiling space, it is also impossible to provide adequate venting. (recommendation is for 10% of floor space or 1 s.f./bird)

I don't get snow, my coop is not a walk in coop and my nest boxes are bumped out so my measurements are 12 + 3 + 15 + 12 + 18 = 60 which works for me and my bad back but you shouldn't design based on my part of the country. A coop designed for the north will work anywhere so use aart's and lazy gardener's measurements.