New Horse... Need Advice.

I would really REALLY REALLY VERY VERY MUCH suggest not even thinking of putting inexperienced riders, or heaven forbid inexperienced children, on a new horse until you've spent a considerable while riding and handling the horse yourself (in all sorts of situations, including things like taking off a jacket while mounted, suddenly shrieking at the top of your lungs while trotting along, that sort of thing) and are confident you know how he will react in different situations.

So I would suggest that you are not likely to want to make up your mind whether this will be a good lesson horse til you have had him for a month or two, and not just 'had him' but been WORKING with him (like not just basic handling stuff, but riding and longeing etc).

Big drafts usually don't make great kids beginner mounts IME (although very short drafts, like in the 14h range, are more often usable)... their size is not really confidence building, their width is hard to sit properly with short legs, if they put their necks down to graze whoa nelly do they yank, they tend to be rather hard for the kids to get going and then get stopped, and draft horses often have a sort of implacable inertia... when they are standing there it takes an act of God to get them going and once they decide to go somewhere it can be real real hard to change their minds. They do not necessarily go anywhere real fast (tho they can) but they can be quite bloodyminded about pursuing their personal goal, like "going to the center of the ring" or "back to the barn" or "down that hill through all those thorn bushes and then under the low-hanging branch".

Mind you I quite *like* draft horses, I do wish they stayed sounder in hard work but honestly I have always had great fun with them. I'm just saying, the size and the typical draft-horse temperament do not IME always make them great lesson horses, in a statistical sense compared to other breeds anyhow.

Of course you don't ride a breed in general, you ride an individual horse, so it is certainly possible this guy may turn out to be an exception. It'll take much more than a week to find out, though. (e.t.a - and really, ANY lesson horse you get, you'll have to work with it. They don't stay GOOD lesson horses for long when beginners are on them -- they need frequent tune-ups. So think of this as what you'd have to go thru with *any* lesson horse, both before you start using it and periodically thereafter
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Good luck,

Pat
 
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Oh, shame! You didn't really try him out
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I agree with Pat - buy the girl lunch and have her come prove it to you. Give the benefit of the doubt.

I sold my Perchie mare last January. It was a disaster. For us, she was a doll. One of those regretful sales where you wished you hadn't accepted the check. Good mare. She did a 180 for the new owner...becoming headstrong, shy and skittish. Well, the new owner is high strung...we are really calm people. We finally decided that was the genesis of the personality change, and I did all I could to coach the new owner.

Drafties are different. They KNOW they're bigger, they KNOW they don't HAVE to lunge. They KNOW they don't HAVE to give you their feet. So...make her show you how. If you would like to know how we trained several disrespectful ton-ers to give their feet *and even hold them up for us* PM me.
 
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Of course, no child is getting on his back any time soon.
If I hinted that I'd be throwing a kid on his back right away I never meant to.

He isn't HUGE height wise for a Belgian, he's 16HH. But you are right about his size not being a great confidence booster.

I was concerned about kids being about to get their legs around him and actually cue him to do what they wanted.

I think it's going to be a wait and see. I was trying to find one horse to suit a bunch of different wants, something that both my husband and I could ride for pleasure (we're both bigger people and the reason I have gained all the weight I have if from getting out of horses, the ridable draft seemed like a good way to start to get me back into shape) and also a horse that was gentle enough for my kids to be taken around a ring leadline with the eventual goals of them W/T in ring off of a leadline.

My kids are only 8, 6, and nearly 3. None of them are ready for anything other than leading rides at this point. My 8 year old boy isn't really into horses.

I have two friends/Mothers interested down the road in paying me to teach their kids about caring for horses and walk/trot riding. Nothing fancy. I'm not looking for a commercial horse farm lesson horse who will crank out lesson after lesson. But I do want something safe for everyone involved.
Let's face it, I am rusty.

Anyway, no one is getting on him right now. I will continue to spend lots of time with him, getting a horse again was such a multi-fauceted choice that there are many more things I can do with him to make me happy than have to ride him right now. I'm perfectly smitten just grooming him, walking him, mucking his stall, and brining him treats!
 
Our Belgian mare cross(15years )(16 hh) does the same kinda nervous dance...it takes some time to get use to it...was he ever a driving horse?....we spent some time at the Royal fair in Toronto talking to draft horse people and watching the drafts horses pull wagons ...I wanted to make sure i was feeding her properly...but anyways when we watched them pull the wagons we could see them doing the "dance " exspecially with the hind legs and the head going high when they stopped.....and they were all together doing it...4....6....8 horses...
We took our girl to a trainer and he did some work with her and with us to help her along...she's getting better
She lifts her feet no problems.....light as a feather were as our Arab cross is a pain in the butt sometimes...and she has dainty feet....
 
Just take your time and get to know him as he is getting to know you. You will know if he is what you are really looking for or not. Just be cautious and you will be fine.
 
1st mistake was not trying the horse out, 2nd mistake was not allowing an adjustment time.
If you know how to train any horse, a draft is no different, just bigger... I actually like drafties better! They are easier and lazier to train than hot Tb's and Arabs. I hope he works out for you. Be careful! Here is my favortite mare, she is a Percheron and was badly abused. Now anyone can ride her.
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PBP....is it possible that the horse that you got was never trained to lunge? It almost sounds like the reaction of a horse that has never done it.
 
I just wasn't sure how much of an adjustment time to give him to be honest.

His prior owner(s), it's a sopa opera of a situation but the gist is that he was technically owned by the ex husband of the woman whom I've been conversing with. They had a semi bitter divorce and a custody battle over another Belgian gelding that she has at her place as well. The court granted legal custody to the husband as he could provide documentation on ownership but he then decided to be nice and continue to board the horse with her so she could be around him.
Fast foward, now ex husband gets a new Fiance. Fiance wants to ride with ex husband. She goes out and buys another Belgian, my Dan. Fiance boards horse with ex husbands other Belgian at ex wifes farm LOL
Now, he'd been there 3 months and the Fiance doesn't want him anymore and hasn't paid a dime to her to care for him. She cannot afford to care for three large drafts (the other Belgian from the divorce that he's also not paying her for but she loves him and won't complain for fear he'll take him away, plus her own draftX) so she starts to beg her ex to give her some money toawrds hay and things. At this point he tells her that new Fiance doesn't want a smelly/dirty horse afterall and to just sell him and that she's not giving her any money towards his care until he's sold.
This is where I come in. Nasty situation huh? They wanted to send him to auction. An old draft at an auction. I shuddered to think about it.
So the woman I have dealt with all along, she has handled him and ridden him and had him shod and teeth done and everything but he wasn't technically hers. She's their Liason so to speak.

I would assume that it's possible that he was never trained to lunge. I've been told he can drive single or double and was used in the past for winter sleigh rides.

Now that I know his reaction though, I will give him more time to adjust and start him back at square one with lungeing. He obviously knows Whoa, Walk, and Back. I can tell him to Back without putting any hands on him and he will. I don't get the feeling from talking about things that the woman who's farm he came from lunges her horses at all so I don't think she would know for sure but I will ask of course.
He is obviously fine around cars and trucks, that can be seen. The woman lives right on a main road with her paddocks right out front along the road and she owns her own pet sitting and trailering biz and said she's used him with a couple of a complete strangers who had never been on a horse in their lives. She frequently trailers her horses around the state for trail riding and things and she really did love Dan but just couldn't afford him any longer.

God I wish he could just open his mouth and tell me what he can and cannot do!

I'll talk to her some more today and see what else I can get her to find out about his backround.
 
IMHO I would just go out and brush and talk calmly to him and "get used" to each other. It took me 3 weeks to get my newest gelding trusting me. Play the "horse games" with him, Show your dominance without any ropes and halters. Play predator and prey. Use the Parelli natural horsmanship knowledge you have (I know you have probably heard of that! if not check it out! Common sense smarts in that program!) and start from ground zero and you will find out real quick what he knows and how derned smart he is.

Chances are she is telling you part of the truth. You sound like you are an experienced horsewoman and just took these people's word on the horse. Hopefully you are still doing this on a trial basis and if things don't work out send him home!!!

By the way, my DH was amazed at how quickly the predator prey game works. He was standing in the pasture with me when I tried it on Doc and it works. 20 min and he was FOLLOWING me around....ASKING for attention! Honestly I was amazed too!
 
I would agree with the others that it would deeply benefit you and the horse to have the previous owner come over and just show you how she works with him. NEVER buy a horse without trying him out and seeing first hand that what you have been told is true. That is the cardinal rule!
He knows that he does not have to do anything he does not want to and is giving you the old once over. He's trying to buffalo you into letting him do as he pleases. It will take time, patience and consistancy on your part to make him see things your way. You will have to make him understand that YOU are in charge. If he learns to trust you and seeks your reassurance then you can develope a great partnership and things will go fine. You just need to find out what he knows and what works and does not work with him.
Make yourself out a list of important things to ask when the lady comes over so you don't forget anything!!!
 

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