new research debunks trad views on nutrition

[Morrigan]

It's not about adding fat to the diet, it's about substituting fat to reach dietary caloric needs for some of the carbohydrates.
Adding high fats to an already balanced diet isn't what's needed, because those added fats also add calories.
Mary

Unless the chickens do the work for you. If they prefer the sunflower seeds and canned tuna they might selectively eat less of the higher carb feed. But, I suppose it might depend on the chickens involved and exactly how much of the extras are being offered.

My flock gets a lot of sunflower seeds (they grow all over my property) and I'm fairly generous with black fly larvae. In 10+ years of chicken keeping, I've only had two sudden deaths -- and one occurred in my first year of chicken keeping when they were exclusively on chicken feed.

I wish there were more controlled studies looking at this. I realize that my experience is only anecdotal.

 

[Perris]

Thanks for providing the link. Two things struck me:

"Fatty liver hemorrhagic syndrome is associated with a surfeit of energy intake, regardless of the source, in birds whose exercise is limited. Additionally, this condition is observed primarily in females. With the initiation of egg production, the estrogen levels in the serum increase, as does the fat content in the liver. FLHS can be induced experimentally in layers and even male birds by administration of estrogen. This suggests that FLHS occurs more frequently in high-producing birds that presumably are producing more estrogen from active ovaries."

Also:

"Experimentally, most attempts to prevent or treat the condition have been made through dietary modification. Substituting carbohydrate with supplemental fat, while not increasing the energy content of the diet, seems to be beneficial. Presumably such modification means the liver needs to synthesize less fat for yolk. Replacement of corn with other cereals, such as wheat and barley, is often beneficial."

I don't read this to mean that commercial feed causes FLSH. But, I also don't read this to mean that you can prevent FLSH by exclusively giving commercial feed. Hence I don't think it's true that giving "treats" is always the cause of FLSH.

I did find interesting that one of the recommendations to combat this disease was to replace some of the carbs with fat. So often fat is named as culprit in FLSH and people are warned against too many sunflower seeds and mealworms. I've often questioned this line of thinking, and its interesting to see some research suggesting that supplement fat might be a good thing.

FLHS is "Sudden death of birds in full production" "associated with high-energy diets and restricted exercise", i.e. commercial layers, and commercial layers are exclusively fed commercial layer feed, which is high energy, and carb heavy, especially with corn, all identified as factors through the article. Not surprisingly, backyard hens of the same breeds, treated and fed the same way, are also liable to suffer it.

It is not a condition of traditional breeds, managed and in particular fed in a traditional way. FLHS is a modern disease arising from modern practice, just like human UPFs and the cluster of human illness and diseases that are associated with their consumption.

 

[Perris]

chicken feed, although an UPF food, is at least intended to be a complete, nutritionally balanced diet

But there isn't just one chicken feed. There are many. Commercial producers change from one to another every couple of weeks while the birds are growing until they get into full laying production, and none of them could accurately be described as 'complete nutritionally balanced feed' - they are tailored very precisely to the average bird in that particular age group's needs to maximise their potential to grow fast or lay lots of eggs in a short time.
An 'all flock' feed is probably the closest thing to what you mean. FLHS is associated with layer feed.

 

[Morrigan]

FLHS is "Sudden death of birds in full production" "associated with high-energy diets and restricted exercise", i.e. commercial layers, and commercial layers are exclusively fed commercial layer feed, which is high energy, and carb heavy, especially with corn, all identified as factors through the article. Not surprisingly, backyard hens of the same breeds, treated and fed the same way, are also liable to suffer it.

It is not a condition of traditional breeds, managed and in particular fed in a traditional way. FLHS is a modern disease arising from modern practice, just like human UPFs and the cluster of human illness and diseases that are associated with their consumption.

In my mind it is hard to separate out what they fed from how they are kept. I suspect that a chicken allowed some reasonable outside space will do considerable better than a caged bird, even if fed the exact same thing.

 

[Molpet]

On the other hand chicken feed, although an UPF food, is at least intended to be a complete, nutritionally balanced diet. And there has been a fair amount of study and work by the poultry industry to try to achieve that objective. To be clear, I don't think bagged food is the very best thing one can feed chickens, and I don't feed it exclusively to my chickens. But, I don't think it's a wholly unreasonable thing to do, either.

commercial layers are removed at18 month usually. byc keepers usually keep them longer and see the effects of the diet

In my mind it is hard to separate out what they fed from how they are kept. I suspect that a chicken allowed some reasonable outside space will do considerable better than a caged bird, even if fed the exact same thing.

chickens with outdoor space are probably supplementing with bugs and plants... mine get berries, snakes and mice they find

 

[RoyalChick]

chickens with outdoor space are probably supplementing with bugs and plants... mine get berries, snakes and mice they find

They also get more exercise. Exercise was called out in the article and quoted by @Perris. Mine are not fully free range but they have a lot of outside space with an electric fence and when I see how they spend their days there is much more walking around (and incidentally flying) than is imaginable in a coop and run of the size normally quoted as sufficient.

 

[Morrigan]

commercial layers are removed at18 month usually. byc keepers usually keep them longer and see the effects of the diet

chickens with outdoor space are probably supplementing with bugs and plants... mine get berries, snakes and mice they find

All very true.

At bottom, I try to do the best I reasonably can for them. There are limitations for commercial food for sure. As I've said before in other threads, commercial feed represents the very cheapest possible way of keeping a chicken in good enough health to lay eggs for two years (or reach butcher weight). That doesn't make commercial food worthless. Especially when used in conjunction with outdoor space and/or sensible supplementation with real food, I believe it can be a healthy and reasonable solution for the backyard chicken keeper.

Commercial feed is not perfect. But I am a believer in not making perfect the enemy of good. I would hate for people not to raise chickens at all, because they were not able to, or did not want to, hand-craft a diet for their chickens made out of whole foods.

 

[saysfaa]

...

I did find interesting that one of the recommendations to combat this disease was to replace some of the carbs with fat. So often fat is named as culprit in FLSH and people are warned against too many sunflower seeds and mealworms. I've often questioned this line of thinking, and its interesting to see some research suggesting that supplement fat might be a good thing.

Is it supplementing fat? Wouldn't that be adding fat to the otherwise unchanged diet? That would make a higher calorie diet, I think.

The article said replace some of the carbs with fat while keeping the calories the same.

 

[Kiki]

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[BDutch]

What would you say is the difference between processed foods, and ultra processed foods?

I make my own peanut butter out of roasted peanuts by using a food processor. They are the only ingredient, unless I add cinnamon or some raw (local) honey.

Here we have different types of peanut butter. They sell 100% peanut butter too. This has no added sugar, salt, fat or anything else. I don’t have a clue wether that is processed food or not. .