New Way to watch an Embryo Grow Try#5(Update Didnt Make It ) Eggtopsy

[ki4got]

sterility is important, but i've seen many cracked eggs go on to hatch, so doing the best you can might be good enough?

and I agree that the egg should be in as much an egg-shape as possible to maintain moisture levels for the chick, but the problem with using a non-porous container, the blood vessels for all the way around an egg for gas exchange, so you would need a similar surface area capable of 'breathing'...

so using the bag alone would be good for that respect, if you could possibly find a way to mimic the shape as well. also, the egg needs to turn to form the blood vessel network completely around the egg, so i would think a similar motion would be necessary, but due to the fragility of the blood vessels, any movement inside a bag might cause them to rupture...

I'm not saying these things to discourage you by any means, as I'm 100% interested in this too, but to give insight on some possible reasons why something might occur.

What I'd like to find, would be a transparent, gas-permeable, rigid or semi-rigid material. it could be molded or extruded into an egg-type shape, and maybe have a sealable closure, so once the egg is in, the walls won't change even if it's moved. then it would fit right into an egg turner as well, for gentle auto-turning that would keep an air cell near the top for when it's time for the chick to pip.

Also, an option to consider in lieu of including shell, is to find a sterile solution that contains soluble calcuim. I'm thinking Lactated Ringers has calcium in it? it's not expensive, and maybe a nearby vet might be willing to provide it for the experiment. (or some other solution the vet thinks would be better suited maybe?) that might also help with the issue of keeping the chick better hydrated in a shallower growing enclosure.

good luck. i'll keep watching.

 

[Stacykins]

Quote:
Sterile solutions of calcium gluconate are available at livestock supply stores, non prescription, as well as sterile needles and syringes. I could see this being used, but the amount to use? Obviously tiny, even though it is critical to bone function, muscle contraction, etc. Calculating the mg/kg would be needed (based on the weight of the egg I guess once the shell is gone, which would weigh less then 100 grams) And whatever excess you draw from the vial must be wasted. But a single, 100 ml bottle would go a very long way.

 

[pax12]

ok thanks

and as of right now first kidney-like cells (pronephros) begin to form and appearance of primitive streak.

 

[Mudsow]

What about beer brewing sanitizers? I'm not sure if they will kill off all microbes, but they are supposed to sterilize equipment, and it's all "food safe"
http://morebeer.com/search/102376/beerwinecoffee/coffeewinebeer/Cleaning_Sanitizing_Chemicals

Just a thought. I mean, how much bacteria is actually on the surfaces anyway? Am I being naive? Assuming everything is basically "clean" to start. It's not like he's using supplies that have been exposed to diseases that he needs to remove.

Again, maybe I'm being naive, but I'd like to think when I clean things, they are clean unless exposed post cleaning.

Mudsow.

Very interesting, I'm waiting for results I think it would be neat to watch the entire process. Almost like a tiny camera inside the egg. Has anyone tried that? In this day and age, I would assume it would already be posted on Utube

Keep up the good work!

 

[pax12]

The thing Im worried about that will kill before microbes is the lack of oxygen if the bag fails.

Sign: Missing eye(s), other eye abnormalities. Causes:

1. High incubator temperature during days 1 to 6.

2. Low oxygen during days 1 to 6.30.
Exposed brain. Causes:

1. High incubator temperature during days 1 to 3.

2. Low oxygen during days 1 to 3.

On day 16 I put an egg in a bag and the next day it died, it could be because it was so late in growing it need more oxygen, thats why when it gets late into hatching I will poke holes in the bag so it can get more oxygen.

 

[Stacykins]

Quote:
Trust me, you don't want to see the result of a swab of a 'clean' surface that is then cultured

it can turn anyone into a germaphobe! Though so many bacteria are so cool to look at (pretty colony colors, interesting shapes under the microscope, heh). We're not meant to live in a sterile world on the outside, but on the inside it has to be. Even normal skin flora can become pathogenic, such Staphylococcus epidermidis (which is interestingly grown in labs on agar plates with added egg yolk supplement, it prefers that medium), which can be introduced into the bloodsteam through intravenous catheters and set up shop.

 

[Mudsow]

Ok, maybe I don't want to know anymore, Ignorance is bliss

 

[pax12]

bullseye is the size of a dime.

Primitive gut begins; primordial germ cells appear in germinal crescent.

Vertebral column begins.

Appearance of neural groove, nervous system.

-Appearance of first pair of somites (block-like segments) and head.

-Blood islands, vitelline (yolk sac) circulation, blood, heart,blood vessels begin (2 to 4 somites).


Appearance of eye; vertebral column visible; embryo begins to turn on left side (6 somites).

Ear begins (7 somites).

-Amnion (embryonic membrane around embryo) begins. Primary function is to protect embryo against shock and sticking; also responsible for some albumen absorption. Chorion (embryonic membrane that fuses with allantois) begins; heartbeat begins (10 somites).


Day 1-

 

[pax12]

I can see a heart beating !!!!

 

[buckabucka]

Wow. I like following this thread!