New young rooster added to established flock - bullying?

[tmeitner]

Hi gang!

We inherited an established flock of 4 hens of varying breeds (they're all reasonably big birds, not quite sure all the breeds but each is different).

At the bottom of the pecking order is Ruth, who used to be bullied quite a bit but that has subsided in recent weeks (a lot of moving stress).

Originally, we had attempted to gradually introduce Penny, our original hen, into the group using a crate for a few days and then a middle-of-the-night move into the coop. The next day, Penny's head was ripped open from pecking and we separated her. Long story short and for a lot of reasons, Penny just lives by herself in her own coop and run now, and everybody is happy.

A week ago, we were gifted a small bantam rooster (hatched June 1st). After almost a full week in the crate, we moved him into the coop in the middle of the night.

This morning, we've been watching closely since he is so much smaller than the girls. Three of them don't seem to mind him being around, but Ruth will NOT leave him alone. The second he is on the ground, she is after him, pinning him down, cornering him, pecking at him. If he escapes onto a pallet or perch, she stalks around on the ground, waiting for him to jump down.

They have tons of space and plenty to do (though we're picking up some scratch blocks), and there's no blood or injury yet. We know they have to work it out, but right now I've put Ruth in the crate to calm her down a bit. I know she's just dealing with pecking order stuff with the new rooster.

Am I doing this the right way? Maybe 2-3 days in the crate to defuse her and then hopefully things will be more calm?

 

[HollowOfWisps]

Older hens will boss around cockerels and they need to be able to do this to ensure that the cockerel grows up with manners towards the hens. What Ruth is doing is making sure that the new cockerel learns his place and manners. The best roosters are often the ones that hens kicked around a bit. Unless she is injuring him let Ruth boss him around.

 

[thistlewick]

The "roosting at night" trick -- I've read how it works, I've also heard from seriously experienced chicken keepers (and by experienced, I am talking in the length of decades) all say that it does not work, that chickens KNOW there is a new chicken there and violence ensues.

Everyone that I have read where they have the least issues is patience patience patience with integration and allowing *see but not touch* access FOR WEEKS.

 

[tmeitner]

Older hens will boss around cockerels and they need to be able to do this to ensure that the cockerel grows up with manners towards the hens. What Ruth is doing is making sure that the new cockerel learns his place and manners. The best roosters are often the ones that hens kicked around a bit. Unless she is injuring him let Ruth boss him around.

Thank you for the answer!

Not arguing, just for clarification: even if she's pinning him down and pecking at him?

 

[HollowOfWisps]

Thank you for the answer!

Not arguing, just for clarification: even if she's pinning him down and pecking at him?

Yes as long as she isn’t actively injuring him. I also wanted to add that your problem with Penny most likely was because you did not use the see but not touch method long enough. From my experience it often takes a good 2 weeks of them being separated, but still able to be together before you can successfully integrate them.

 

[tmeitner]

Yes as long as she isn’t actively injuring him. I also wanted to add that your problem with Penny most likely was because you did not use the see but not touch method long enough. From my experience it often takes a good 2 weeks of them being separated, but still able to be together before you can successfully integrate them.

2 weeks, goodness! Okay, well, Penny is super happy being by herself so we're not going to attempt that one again (she had a rough life before coming here).

But okay, when I get back outside I'll let Ruth out of the crate and see what happens I guess. Hard to tell when they're just pecking around and when they're injuring!

 

[Ridgerunner]

Welcome to the forum. Glad you joined.

A week ago, we were gifted a small bantam rooster (hatched June 1st).

So 3 months old, still an immature cockerel. May or may not have started puberty yet. I assume your hens are mature and laying eggs?

They have tons of space

How much physical space in feet or meters in the coop? In feet or meters, how much room in the run? There have been several posts on here where people say they have plenty of room and a big part of the problem is that the chickens are crowded.

I understand you can read about certain magic numbers as to how much room chickens need on this forum but those are just guidelines that often (but not always) work in specific circumstances. The one I see most often on here is the 4 square feet in the coop with 10 square feet in the run per chicken. That works most of the time if the chickens are all about the same level of maturity and are fully integrated.

Integration generally requires more room. It is not a matter of square feet but can the weaker get away if chased or avoid the stronger to start with. With mine, if the chicks invade the personal space of more mature chickens they are likely to get pecked or worse. They quickly learn to stay far away.

Clutter can help them avoid the older. That is stuff they can hide under, behind, or get over without getting trapped. Clutter can improve the quality of whatever space you have. Your cockerel is taking advantage of those perches to get away from that one hen.

Most mature chickens will not go out of their way to hunt another chicken to do harm but occasionally one will. These are just brutes. With what happened to Penny and how she is treating your cockerel you may have one of those.

If you can, I'd suggest you isolate Ruth from the flock for a week. Sometimes (not always but sometimes) that can alter their behavior in the flock. It can knock the down in the pecking order so when they come back they are more worried about their spot in the pecking order with other hens so aren't worried about bullying the new chickens. This assumes they are high in the pecking order to start with. Often the brutes and bullies are closer to the bottom of the pecking order so this doesn't help.

I don't know if room is an issue for you or not. Instead it could be the personality of Ruth. It could be something else.

The second he is on the ground, she is after him, pinning him down, cornering him, pecking at him.

Pecking is not a big deal. A broody hen pecks her chicks to discipline them. Chickens higher in the pecking order may peck another chicken to intimidate it or boss it around. But pecking is also how they can kill each other. I had a two week old chick kill its sibling by standing next to it and pecking it on the head. Interestingly the chick just stood there and let it. I had a 15 week old cockerel kill another cockerel by holding it down and pecking at the head until it drilled a hole to the brain. If I see a chicken hold another one down and try to peck its head that chicken is trying to kill the other one. I consider that dangerous behavior.

So what can you do, other than isolating Ruth for a while? Give them as much room as you can, day and night. Do not force them to share small spaces. Provide widely separated food and water stations so the cockerel does not have to challenge Ruth to eat and drink. Try "look but don't touch" (house them side by side but where he is protected from her) for a few weeks. And, as hard as this is, if the flock is peaceful when Ruth is not a part of it and a problem when she is consider getting rid of Ruth. Or decide you don't want that cockerel after all and get rid of him.

 

[tmeitner]

Okay everybody, an update after Day 1 - and some answers. Sorry if this gets long.

First, RE: room. The coop and run house 4 hens and the cockerel. The run is around 8' W x 24' T x 6' H, not including the space under the coop, which is accessible. There's a pallet, a perch, and currently a sheet of plywood on top of the crate in the middle of the run. Lots of stuff, including a couple scratch blocks. Multiple feeders spread out.

The coop floor is about 8' x 4' I believe. At least 3-4' tall. 4 nesting boxes and 3 roosting bars up high.

Here's what I've observed:
- Our cockerel, Jerry, is fairly fast and alert. Whenever he got into a scrap with Ruth, he was able to get away. He'd either get onto the plywood and then up onto the pallet, or he'd go into the coop. He spent a lot of the day in the coop. Once he'd get away, Ruth would pace, then wander off.
- Ruth is the only one that really seems bothered by him. The others didn't really care. The lead hen, Rita, spent a lot of time with him in the coop. She didn't give him much attention, but they coexisted fine.
- Whenever Ruth saw Jerry, she'd go after him fast with zero exceptions.

I was fine leaving everyone alone because Jerry was getting away and not injured. As dusk hit, I went outside and saw the girls heading into the coop where Jerry was, so I wanted to wait and observe.

Jerry hid in a corner nesting box. The first 3 came in, saw him, and headed up to roost. Then Ruth came in. She saw Jerry and instantly attacked him in the corner. Jerry tried to get out through the coop door, and Ruth grabbed him by the neck, dragged him back into the middle of the coop, and got on top of him to peck more. I opened the side door and got her off of him. Ruth eventually jumped up to roost too, though she kept watching him and seemed to not relax like the others.

Jerry tried to roost, but they all pecked him off. I figured this was just part of establishing the order, but he kept hopping around, trying to get a spot on the very spacious roosts. Nobody would let him up.

Not trusting Ruth at this point, I managed to get Jerry to come out of the coop and I shut the door for the night. I put Jerry back in the crate in the middle of the run, which he wasn't happy about, but I'd rather he stay alive.

We've assumed Ruth is the bottom of the pecking order because we've seen Rita on top of her a few times. But I guess we can't be sure. For the record, when they attacked and bloodied our other hen, Penny, we don't know who led the charge. It very well could have been Ruth.

At this point, we're looking at our options:

1. Keep Jerry in the crate for a week or so, let them get used to each other more before trying again.
2. Tomorrow, swap Jerry out and put Ruth in the crate in the run and leave her in there for a week to reset her attitude, hopefully.

Then, if #2 doesn't work, we consider getting rid of Ruth. We don't want to do that as she is the most consistent layer of the four, but we're also getting tired of these chickens beating the crap out of any other bird who comes in.

Phew. That was a lot. Thanks for reading.

Any insights? We're pretty frustrated with the whole situation and just want to have a relatively-peaceful flock.

 

[Ridgerunner]

2. Tomorrow, swap Jerry out and put Ruth in the crate in the run and leave her in there for a week to reset her attitude, hopefully.

Then, if #2 doesn't work, we consider getting rid of Ruth. We don't want to do that as she is the most consistent layer of the four, but we're also getting tired of these chickens beating the crap out of any other bird who comes in.

Sounds good. You should have sufficient room and it seems that other than this specific hen it is going really well.

I try to solve for the peace of the flock, not for the benefit of any one specific member. It's a shame when that one specific member is one of your better laying hens.

Next time you add a new chicken, try to add more than just one. Especially if they are immature. It seems to go a lot better if they have a buddy to hang with instead of wanting to hang with the established flock.

 

[tmeitner]

Sounds good. You should have sufficient room and it seems that other than this specific hen it is going really well.

I try to solve for the peace of the flock, not for the benefit of any one specific member. It's a shame when that one specific member is one of your better laying hens.

Next time you add a new chicken, try to add more than just one. Especially if they are immature. It seems to go a lot better if they have a buddy to hang with instead of wanting to hang with the established flock.

Thanks. Yeah, I do know. In both cases, it was kinda unavoidable.

Reddit suggested trying pinless peepers, which is the one solution I hadn't tried yet. We'll throw some on Ruth tomorrow and let Jerry back out - see what happens.

Appreciate you and anybody else who took the time to read this!