Newbie brooder & supplement questions

[appleacres]

Hello,

I am preparing to receive my first ever batch of keets (have never raised chickens or anything before--getting guineas for insect control) total newbie!

A few questions:

--What is your recommended brooder size for weeks 1-2 and 2-6? I have two totes that are 3x1.5' each--I can combine them, or separate the keets into two groups of 7. I am building a larger brooder for weeks 2-6.

--Does anyone use supplements in feed and water such as cider vinegar, or garlic, if so, what proportions? Do you use Rooster Booster electrolytes, if so for how long?

--I inherited a 250W red bulb/brooder heat lamp, and an Ecoglow 600 (12") heat plate. I have plastic totes--I have heard that the heat lamp
would be way too hot for the plastic tote, but I plugged it in over 24 hours ago in a warm room (steady 80 degrees with a heater), and the contact temp on my thermometer (calibrated) is only 85 degrees...this seems strange for such a hot bulb. I'd rather use just a regular bulb, but if the 250 W is only getting it up 5 degrees warmer than the room, I don't think a regular bulb would work. Bulb is clamped at top of tote, only about 2' above bottom of tote. (Tote is 3'x3'x2' total)

--I would really like to use the heat plate instead since it seems safer and more natural, but it's only 12"---it says it is for up to 20 keets, but I don't see how 15 keets I have ordered could fit underneath it for more than a week. I am guessing they are only going to fit inside my house for maybe two weeks before I have to transition to a larger brooder within the coop I have built (and I want them to get used to the coop ASAP) so I want to make sure I have a way for them to stay warm at ages 2-8 weeks. The outdoor temps here can randomly dip into the 20s-40s through early May. What would you recommend as a heat source within the outdoor brooder for that time, should I get another heat plate, or should I be using the heat lamp and a heat plate? At what point are they smart enough to not eat sawdust/woodchips and which would you recommend for the bedding generally (I have access to both)

--It seems to me reading the 101 thread that the most common mistakes have been not checking for pasty butt daily, and giving them bedding too early and having them eat it. Is there anything else I should watch out for?

 

[Friendly_Lurker]

You sound very prepared! I put about a tbs per cup of apple cider vinegar and a tsp of sugar per cup of water. I would wait at least a week and a half before giving them the shavings, not the sawdust, because the sawdust will look more like food. When you check on them, you can tell if they need it warmer or colder in there by whether they are panting or huddling together. You will also need to cover the brooder because keats are very flighty and will escape. Send us pics!

 

[R2elk]

Do not add garlic or ACV. ACV has been proven harmful at high temperatures. Brooder temperatures are high temperatures. Garlic can be harmful to poultry.

Never use sawdust as bedding.

Don't use wood chips as bedding for the first two weeks and even after that if grit is not made available.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Hi apple acres, congratulations of your upcoming new “confusion” of guineas!!! It sounds like you’ve done your homework and are really prepared! For our home hatched Keets, I don’t do anything special with supplements. If the keets are being shipped, I think they tend to arrive in rough shape, so I would give Nutridrench (change water daily) to try to get them back to health as quickly as possible. Present finely crumbled feed in a shallow wide dish until they are eating well. I’d also dip beaks in the water for each as you unpack into your brooder.

I have a plastic tote brooder like that with wire for the top. I’d never use a high wattage bulb there; I use a 100-150 watt red reptile light for a small brooder like that, with a towel over the other half of the brooder to keep in heat. Even those bulbs are dangerous - wire it on so it doesn’t slip and melt the plastic! To measure temps, roll up a towel so the top is about 1-2 inches off the floor. Put your temperature probe on top of the rolled up towel, touching the surface. Add your towel cover etc and check the temp after an hour or two. I also have a brooder plate I use in the tote and prefer it for safety. I make one side higher than the other so chicks and keets can find their preferred temp and keep from getting burned. Depending on the size of your plate, they can likely all fit for a week or two. Measuring temps with the brooder plate doesn’t really work - feel whether the plate is warm to almost hot and look at the height and keet behavior.

I’d leave them all in that brooder together but really do move out quickly as keets grow fast. Best way to monitor their temps is with continued thermometers at warm amd cool sections of brooder (if using a light), plus looking at the behavior of the keets. Keets should be sleeping or active. They should huddle together where it’s warm but only part of the time. If they are huddled all of the time, they are too cold. If panting or staying away from the heat, they are too hot. Watch for pasty butt and clean promptly. When clean, applying Vaseline to back end helps keep poop from sticking. I don’t use wood shavings as I’ve had several die with presumed impactions; keets will eat everything! Best of luck - I hope you’ll post pictures and updates!!!

 

[red horse ranch]

I use an 18" x 36" wire dog crate to start my baby guineas. There should be 6" to 8" of cardboard around all sides to prevent drafts and keep the keets from walking thru the sides.
I hang a brooder lamp inside the crate with a 60 to 75 watt regular incandescent bulb. The babies are kept in the house this way for the 1st 2 weeks. I use old towels for bedding which keeps the keets from sliding around and causing leg problems.

The only thing I add to the water is electrolytes and vitamins. DO NOT use ACV or garlic. It can harm them. When the keets arrive they should be offered warm water with the electrolytes 1st to get hydrated. Then give them the feed. This usually helps with preventing pasty butt.

I believe a 250 watt heat bulb would end up cooking your babies in a tote. It doesn't take much to give them extra heat inside a heated house.

Hope this helps give you some ideas.

 

[Sydney65]

Heat lamp is too hot for tote.
Seems like many give up on heating plate -I have one- bc it never reaches best temp. and switch to Mama's heating pad-here are some links -Post in thread 'Mama heating pad' https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/mama-heating-pad.1327526/post-21657156

I use the largest clear tote at walmart & screen in the top. The 1st time, I got all fancy and cut in sections of lid to fit wire hardcloth. The second time, I cut out the center of lid and had a screen that fit perfectly.
Purina Turkey/game fowl starter is most recommended to begin with, but good luck finding smaller than 50# bag or plan on using longer than suggested-which is ok. - Ppl selling this repackaged on Amazon have bad reviews of lying abt what it is.
I didn't manage to have 20 mailed keets survive long enough for crowding to be a problem. Mine stayed inside in brooder for 4-8 wks.
Agree against ACV, agree for nutri-drench.
First few weeks, paper towel on bottom of tote is perfect. Easy to change, easy to walk on, and they don't eat it. Another good thing to use if you're willing to clean it is no slip shelf liner, or use it under paper towel. Protecting their little legs from slipping is important.

 

[Sydney65]

Hi apple acres, congratulations of your upcoming new “confusion” of guineas!!! It sounds like you’ve done your homework and are really prepared! For our home hatched Keets, I don’t do anything special with supplements. If the keets are being shipped, I think they tend to arrive in rough shape, so I would give Nutridrench (change water daily) to try to get them back to health as quickly as possible. Present finely crumbled feed in a shallow wide dish until they are eating well. I’d also dip beaks in the water for each as you unpack into your brooder.

I have a plastic tote brooder like that with wire for the top. I’d never use a high wattage bulb there; I use a 100-150 watt red reptile light for a small brooder like that, with a towel over the other half of the brooder to keep in heat. Even those bulbs are dangerous - wire it on so it doesn’t slip and melt the plastic! To measure temps, roll up a towel so the top is about 1-2 inches off the floor. Put your temperature probe on top of the rolled up towel, touching the surface. Add your towel cover etc and check the temp after an hour or two. I also have a brooder plate I use in the tote and prefer it for safety. I make one side higher than the other so chicks and keets can find their preferred temp and keep from getting burned. Depending on the size of your plate, they can likely all fit for a week or two. Measuring temps with the brooder plate doesn’t really work - feel whether the plate is warm to almost hot and look at the height and keet behavior.

I’d leave them all in that brooder together but really do move out quickly as keets grow fast. Best way to monitor their temps is with continued thermometers at warm amd cool sections of brooder (if using a light), plus looking at the behavior of the keets. Keets should be sleeping or active. They should huddle together where it’s warm but only part of the time. If they are huddled all of the time, they are too cold. If panting or staying away from the heat, they are too hot. Watch for pasty butt and clean promptly. When clean, applying Vaseline to back end helps keep poop from sticking. I don’t use wood shavings as I’ve had several die with presumed impactions; keets will eat everything! Best of luck - I hope you’ll post pictures and updates!!!

Lol..you know, I put a thermometer under the heat plate last year for the twins, and it didn't matter where I put it, they pushed it out. Lol

 

[appleacres]

Thanks everyone--I am still finding some conflicting temps using heat lamps, it's either too hot or too cold, never within 5 degrees of 95...so I have a heat plate as well and may use the heat plate, and add the heat lamp if they are acting cold, with 1/3 out of the light to stay fairly cool. Interesting about the ACV and garlic--I have read elsewhere that these are good things, but I will defer! I am expecting a shipment of 15 keets on Friday, and also picking up 4 barred rock chicks from a local store--hoping to raise them together on my 2 acre plot, and separate if necessary. I have been told that sending via express does not make a difference, but I decided to pay for it and for a heat pack anyway--temps will be in low 40s this week, so hopefully they'll be OK! I have had bad experience with the post office in recent years so I went with express. We'll see if it makes a difference!

 

[Sydney65]

Thanks everyone--I am still finding some conflicting temps using heat lamps, it's either too hot or too cold, never within 5 degrees of 95...so I have a heat plate as well and may use the heat plate, and add the heat lamp if they are acting cold, with 1/3 out of the light to stay fairly cool. Interesting about the ACV and garlic--I have read elsewhere that these are good things, but I will defer! I am expecting a shipment of 15 keets on Friday, and also picking up 4 barred rock chicks from a local store--hoping to raise them together on my 2 acre plot, and separate if necessary. I have been told that sending via express does not make a difference, but I decided to pay for it and for a heat pack anyway--temps will be in low 40s this week, so hopefully they'll be OK! I have had bad experience with the post office in recent years so I went with express. We'll see if it makes a difference!

That's the problem w/the internet & natural remedies..in the frenzy ppl start connecting too many dots & we end up w/faulty advice. An instructor of mine once pointed out that "natural" doesn't always mean "safer".

 

[Testing the fowl water]

I'm not sure why everyone is against the acv and garlic. All of my birds have gotten it from day one and just raised my first batch of guineas on it. Got 30 guineas in early March, lost one a couple days later and one a few weeks later (I believe they trampled that one to death). Every time I changed water I put about 1 tbls of acv per quart and 1 med to lrg clove of garlic smashed into the water. I fed them organic turkey starter the first few weeks and gradually switched them over to organic chicken starter/grower which they all remain on today. I never added anything else to their water or food. I used a 16x16 heat plate but certainly could have used bigger. They are now hanging with a dozen full grown hens and enjoy going into the one with them. Just wish I knew all the tricks to get them in at night