Niacin Deficiency in Waterfowl

[SorchaandFrancis]

Many thanks @Isaac 0 . You gave the precise info I’ve been looking for about niacin, ie dosage. 70mg of niacin per kilo or 1000 grams.
I found a liquid on Amazon. HoneyCombs Industries Niacinamide 80mg per 0.8mL I had been putting it in drinking water, however, now it will be put on his veggies.

 

[Isaac 0]

Many thanks @Isaac 0 . You gave the precise info I’ve been looking for about niacin, ie dosage. 70mg of niacin per kilo or 1000 grams.
I found a liquid on Amazon. HoneyCombs Industries Niacinamide 80mg per 0.8mL I had been putting it in drinking water, however, now it will be put on his veggies.View attachment 2219450

You have a Wood Duck correct? Perching type ducks (Including Muscovys) don't often suffer from a niacin deficiency since they grow a little slower, and also have very strong legs for when they're perching. I'm not saying supplementing with niacin is a bad idea, because it's not, but you don't have to really be that "accurate with the dosages. I think adding about 0.8ml or so over treats until he's 8-10 weeks would be fine.

 

[SorchaandFrancis]

You have a Wood Duck correct? Perching type ducks (Including Muscovys) don't often suffer from a niacin deficiency since they grow a little slower, and also have very strong legs for when they're perching. I'm not saying supplementing with niacin is a bad idea, because it's not, but you don't have to really be that "accurate with the dosages. I think adding about 0.8ml or so over treats until he's 8-10 weeks would be fine.

Yes, @Isaac 0 Francis is an 8 week old Wood Duck. Good to know, and since niacin is a “B” vitamin, in humans the excess is thrown off through urination. My Mother used to raise Mandarin ducks, and more than a few had leg/walking trouble. Through preventative measures I hope to avoid this problem for Francis.

 

[Isaac 0]

https://pdf.sciencedirectassets.com/776861/1-s2.0-S0032579119X61854/1-s2.0-S0032579119372529/main.pdf?X-Amz-Security-Token=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&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20200718T121904Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAQ3PHCVTYXWVAYNT3/20200718/us-east-1/s3/aws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=1f42c0583691a4e2d643d9afa4436026ff8241597a3ba040f9064da43685b487&hash=cc0f024c5701e3d971422305f305994357b3554e2449360488cfd9cfb35cebaa&host=68042c943591013ac2b2430a89b270f6af2c76d8dfd086a07176afe7c76c2c61&pii=S0032579119372529&tid=spdf-86dd3b2f-3d9f-4de9-9a74-aa46bcb487ba&sid=3dc2fb738c6532422d898073f5b697385a1cgxrqa&type=client

 

[Loopeend]

Still do not understand this stuff and the pills and potions and stuff..

Niancin, angelwing, bumblefoot; it just does not happen here. In the Netherlands.

I can understand that this climate/ground/whatever is perfect for ducks. Ducks in the dessert or ducks in the snow.. probably less.

But why not just.. feed them pees/worms/snails or whatever. Why the potions and "added to feed stuff". (have to take a step back here; I am on Indian runners; ducks that need the most animal protein). It feels often a bit like a scam. Those bottles. There must be niancin-rich cheap natural products in the U.S.

This is actually more of a question then a complaint.

 

[Isaac 0]

Still do not understand this stuff and the pills and potions and stuff..

Niancin, angelwing, bumblefoot; it just does not happen here. In the Netherlands.

I can understand that this climate/ground/whatever is perfect for ducks. Ducks in the dessert or ducks in the snow.. probably less.

But why not just.. feed them pees/worms/snails or whatever. Why the potions and "added to feed stuff". (have to take a step back here; I am on Indian runners; ducks that need the most animal protein). It feels often a bit like a scam. Those bottles. There must be niancin-rich cheap natural products in the U.S.

This is actually more of a question then a complaint.

I'm not familiar with what the whole "duck situation" is in the Netherlands, but I'm sure there has to be some sort of geographical relation to the commonality of a niacin deficiency in the region specified, for an example, what breeds do they raise in the Netherlands, you raise Runner's which are classified as a lighter weight breed, therefore seldom are affected from low levels of niacin, what types of feed are used in the Netherlands, I could go on with several region-specific factors that may increase or decrease the likely hood of your ducks coming down with niacin deficiency.

In the US, we see a lot of heavyweight breeds, like Pekins, being fed chick starter, which usually only contains about half of the levels they need, a few weeks after hatch, these birds often show weakness, bowing, or pigeon-toedness to their legs.

Your second is question, Is why we can't just feed them, or provide them with natural insects, bugs, and vegetation, correct?

The bottles shown in this thread, are only around 16$, not much, and will last for many years, I don't see how that'd be a "scam".

 

[Loopeend]

I'm not familiar with what the whole "duck situation" is in the Netherlands, but I'm sure there has to be some sort of geographical relation to the commonality of a niacin deficiency in the region specified, for an example, what breeds do they raise in the Netherlands, you raise Runner's which are classified as a lighter weight breed, therefore seldom are affected from low levels of niacin, what types of feed are used in the Netherlands, I could go on with several region-specific factors that may increase or decrease the likely hood of your ducks coming down with niacin deficiency.

In the US, we see a lot of heavyweight breeds, like Pekins, being fed chick starter, which usually only contains about half of the levels they need, a few weeks after hatch, these birds often show weakness, bowing, or pigeon-toedness to their legs.

Your second is question, Is why we can't just feed them, or provide them with natural insects, bugs, and vegetation, correct?

The bottles shown in this thread, are only around 16$, not much, and will last for many years, I don't see how that'd be a "scam".

Thanks. Interesting. Indian runner ducks are from Indonesia/islands around it. They are the only ducks that eat from land; instead of water plants. (not only; but other then common ducks). This land is mushy. No rocks. Wet and mushy; so a lot of worms and snails. Everywhere. They even eat baby-mice. This climate works for them as ducks from Asia, and niancin is not a problem.

How interesting it is; raising ducks in different climates;

But you do not answer my "second question". You just say they are only around 16 dollars..
- Exactly why can't you "provide them with natural insects, bugs, and vegetation"?
- And "will last for many years". Weird. Most stuff that works loses it's power after months. But this work for years? Could you explain to me how it works so it can work for years. The components and how they work and scientiffacally and such.

 

[Isaac 0]

Thanks. Interesting. Indian runner ducks are from Indonesia/islands around it. They are the only ducks that eat from land; instead of water plants. (not only; but other then common ducks). This land is mushy. No rocks. Wet and mushy; so a lot of worms and snails. Everywhere. They even eat baby-mice. This climate works for them as ducks from Asia, and niancin is not a problem.

How interesting it is; raising ducks in different climates;

But you do not answer my "second question". You just say they are only around 16 dollars..
- Exactly why can't you "provide them with natural insects, bugs, and vegetation"?
- And "will last for many years". Weird. Most stuff that works loses it's power after months. But this work for years? Could you explain to me how it works so it can work for years. The components and how they work and scientiffacally and such.

I'll have to check mine, but, I believe the expiration date is around two/three years after when it was made, so if you keep it in a good environment, you could probably make it last longer. Spending 16 or so dollars every 3 1/2 / 4 years doesn't sound too bad to me, I'm sure others would also agree.

You can provide your ducks with vegetation, bugs, etc. That's great, and I'm sure a lot of that stuff contains natural B vitamins, but in no way should that be swapped out for real supplementation. A common misconception is, "if I let my ducks range outside they don't need B vitamins"

A lot of people seem to think this, just to see there ducks showing problems walking. Do we know if they're actually eating the vegetation/bugs, or are the bugs that they're eating high in B vitamins?

Letting them forage for natural insects, vegetation, is fine, but IMO, and from who've I helped, its not a concrete way of supplementing your ducks with niacin.

 

[Fatema Jahan]

Great information!! I do keep the B complex and add to their drinking water occasionally.

Can I give my duck marmite instead.????

 

[Isaac 0]

Can I give my duck marmite instead.????

I'm not familiar with Marmite, or its niacin content. If you have a bird that's niacin deficient, she should be started on a B Complex containing niacin.