No Ducklings?

[Kleonaptra]

Howdy all,

In November my 3 big girls (Syanne, Pekin, Ephinny part pekin and Varia God knows what) started laying, all 3 in the same nest. Only Syanne was sitting. The drake Wist (in my profile pic with Piper) is a Pacific black duck and very small compared to them, I was excited to discover many fertile eggs as I didnt think he was actually breeding them. I had cracked a few and posted a thread on it which you can find on my profile page with a pic of my flock. Piper, the only one the same breed as him, laid too, but I was too busy over dec to incubate eggs and sadly hers were thrown out by the big girls. She has not laid since and might not til next year as they are typically seasonal.

In Jan Syanne abandoned the nest - I dont blame her, months of sitting to no joy - and Varia took over. Varia is a very different sitter to Syanne, she gaurds the nest forcefully and wont let the others girls in. Sometimes Syanne would end up sitting on 50 eggs, big clean ups for me! Varia has kept a clean tight clutch of 9 only, chucking out eggs she doesnt like.

About 2 weeks ago I candled and was very excited to see 5 eggs with little pulsing heartbeats in the dark murk at the top. No clear blood vessels but the beating was clear. I slowly watched the eggs getting darker expecting babies - but today was shocked to find the 3 dark eggs ROTTEN. I was extra shocked as she had just 3 days ago chucked out 7 eggs to focus on those 5. 3 of those 5 were definitely rotten, I had to chuck them and clean out the whole nest area. She has laid 2 new ones today.

I washed the eggs gently with warm water and 3 floated. I candled but my torch is going a bit flat - 3 looked promising. She is doing such a better job than Syanne, I really had high hopes we would get some ducklings this time. Syanne was a real featherhead - staying on the eggs in the heat, getting off them in the cold. Varia is a much better mum and rarely leaves them. She is also the drake's favourite and he sits on the nest with her, he is the only one she will tolerate near her.

So what are we doing wrong? I assumed that the fertilized eggs meant crossbreeding them was possible, was I wrong? Is it possible to have an egg that is fertilized but not viable? Sometimes when cracking them to check it wasnt just encouraging spots, but split nucleas'. They seem to develop to about 2-3 weeks old then die. Syannes did too and through January I was candling a few times a week.

I waited SIX YEARS for my drake to get it together, I had just him and a female of his breed from 2006 til just last august when she got taken by a fox. Piper is a new addition, barely a year old, and I purchased the big girls last Aug when Talli got taken. He refused to breed until I got the big ladies, so seeing fertilized eggs was more than the bees knees!

They have a large shed they get locked up in at night, and a large pen. They are also allowed free range around the yard and are fed an extensive seed mix (plus kitchen scraps). They have a pond cleaned every few days as well as several water dishes cleaned twice a day. I last wormed them in january.

 

[Amiga]

Kleonaptra, this is way beyond my knowledge. Just wanted to let you know I appreciate you sharing your story.

 

[Kleonaptra]

Thanks Amiga,

I appreciate your reply. I did forget to mention that it is the big girls first season too - They were only young when I bought them in August, about a year old I think. I bought them from a breeder and told him I would be breeding them with a Pacific Black drake, they commonly breed very well with mallards but I dont know if they cross breed to anything else. He didnt indicate I would have any problems, just told me a small drake will get on a big duck, dont worry about that! After his initial shyness he sure did!

She has a total of 6 in the nest now. I had put our woes down to everyone being a first time mum, but the eggs getting to about 2-3 weeks development then seeming to stop is now worrying me. I believe Varia is part mallard by her markings and she seems to be getting a collar - her markings are a lot like the Pacific Blacks too so I was hoping she had a bit of that in her too, which would mean she had a better chance of cross breeding than the others. I have never seen the nice clear blood vessels that you want to see, but often when candling eggs from pacific blacks I dont see them until right at the end, so I havnt been concerned. Im now worried however that something is going wrong at that early development stage, and if it isnt failure to crossbreed, could it be nutritional? Im pretty fussy about their food. Maybe they arent mature enough? I thought maybe the part pekin might be a mule, but if they were I thought they wouldnt lay fertilized eggs at all? Its sure a puzzle, Ive waited so long for baby ducks! They way its going I'll be waiting for Piper to lay next spring and put them straight in an incubator. I thought she might give me one more - as they usually do in autumn, but no show. I think she's too young still, maybe they all are? I wouldnt know, Ive only incubated eggs Ive rescued, Ive never actually done it with my own flock. The drake was rescued as an egg from a land clearing site and he was lucky to hatch. Piper the same.

 

[Amiga]

I suppose it could be nutritional. Sometimes a trace mineral makes a difference. Where I live, people give their ewes selenium because it is not in our soil, and that can have all kinds of detrimental effects on sheep reproduction and lamb survival.

 

[Kleonaptra]

Hmm, I give them a pretty extensive seed mix.

They get a bag of large parrot seed, bag of small parrot seed, bag of rolled oats, bag of quick oats, a poultry mix and I mix that together in big buckets with a couple of scoops of horse feed - usually Equine Higain Senoir but this month Equine Higain Microspeed as they were out of the other. Its a luxury grain mix rendered with molasses and they like the taste. I also give them plenty of kitchen scraps including crushed egg shells, breadcrumbs mixed with egg, veggie scraps, the works. We never throw out anything from the kitchen it all goes on the lawn, if the ducks and chooks dont eat it the possum cleans it up.

If anyone can tell me if this feed isnt sufficient and what I SHOULD be doing instead, Id be most grateful.

I also would really like to know if eggs would get fertilized and start growing if the crossbreeding wasnt possible. I assumed that fertilized eggs and embryos that started to grow meant the issues were happening with temperature, but Im really not sure now. When Syanne was on the nest we had some really high temps and she never got off, but then left it when the temp dropped so I put it down to that. However since Varia's been sitting our temps have been very mild, turning cold at night and she's an awesome mum, keeping her nest really clean with only a few eggs in at a time.

If they could not crossbreed, is it possible to fertilize the eggs at at all? Would the embryos begin to develop? If anyone can answer these questions Id appreciate it very much.