No, I don’t have any regrets about eating animals.

[goldysgirl]

90 posts in one day? BRAVO

 

[Hardknockshomestead]

It also bothers me when someone comes into a meat birds forum and demands we justify our feelings around something as sacred as life and death and as impossible as the pursuit of ethical consumption, to them in particular. It's so exhausting seeing that topic blow up every few months and trying to explain it to people who usually ask from a place of bad faith.

Fact: Everything that lives, dies. So to me... If life is to be created you also are responsible for their inevitable death. Every baby you birth, every chick you hatch, every puppy you've rescued will die.
If death is something bad then the creation of life produces something bad EVERY time. Because the latter always, every time, leads to the former.

I often rebutt with do vegans grow their own plants to avoid the millions of mice caught in combines or tractors? The wildlife shot or injured or hurt to protect the crops? The millions of acres cleared for everything from palm oil to soybeans? Every one I've spoken to think that's a ridiculous idea, even though it "saves lives". Vegans too must consume to survive. Our own need to consume can either outweigh the lives of other living things, or we could simply just embrace the call of the void so we consume no more.

Sometimes I grieve because much of ethical consumption is outside of my reach and influence. Animals are grown in cruelty, pesticides for mass crop production damage the earth, clothes I wear are sewn by foreign factory workers under slave wages, the precious metals in my laptop literally came at the expense of countless human and animal lives in impoverished and exploited regions, the electricity that runs this websites servers is generated largely by fossil fuels... THAT brings me grief. The SYSTEM brings me grief. I believe there's alternative means to this end that aren't so exploitative.

But the consumption itself? Consumption is inherit to life. And what small changes I can do to change the system, I do but I don't grieve that I consume. We are all entitled to consume. If we aren't then all life must cease because all life consumes - from humans eating meat to the vines that break the walls of my home, to the tree that shades and out-consume the sapling that dies underneath it.
So I don't feel bad about it. If death isn't negative and consumption a requirement, all that's left to consider is the experiences and ripple effects of the things we consume. Who cried today to bring you that burger? What pain was experienced? Minimizing that matters to me.

Some vegans have argued to me that animal life can perceive it's own pain, death and grieve... But... Plants speak. They send out warning notices to other plants when they are being attacked. They send signals to each other about water and fungi and nutrients and even talk to bees and animals to continue their lives and protect them. The irony of veganism arguing "We can't really understand animals emotional pain because they don't grieve like we do but still shouldn't consume them cause they might be grieving" but "We can't understand plants pain but should still eat them" is frustrating to me.

Life means consumption. Consumption means death for SOMETHING. It's only what happens in between that matters. If death is inherently bad, or consumption of life is, then all life is. End of story. I simply don't believe that life - or death is bad. Life and death itself simply... Is.

/Endrant

I really think you hit the nail on the head with your post. As a consumer, I have always felt the weight of responsibility for all decisions I make. Whatever we consume, we should all do our best to consider the cost.

 

[Coopscraft]

I could never eat a dog. I think my dog has the intelligence of a 2-3 year-old human. He doesn't speak English, but we share our own little language. He gestures with his eyes and movements to tell me when he wants something. He feels happiness, sadness, and anxiety, and he dreams at night. He dedicates his whole life to being my companion and protector. I think the bond between humans and dogs is sacred. A relationship formed over thousands of years together. I could never eat one unless I was starving, and I think it would have to be a nasty dog haha. To me dogs are people, too. Ok, I admit, I am a crazy dog lady!!! This is an interesting thread. Fun to respectfully share opinions and ideas.

I can relate to this and by extension I can relate to the sentiment of poultry being pets too. I don’t see myself eating my pets. On the other hand, it’s not outside of nature to regard some animals as food. I don’t have any criticism of a culture that has different species of pets and livestock than I do. And I wouldn’t think to violate those sensibilities in their homes either.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Haven't seen many (or any) vegetarian opinions here, so perhaps I should add mine.
Someone was talking about the system earlier... where our entire society is based off non renewable resources and the consumption of living things. This is a fact, sadly.

I don't particularly mind the fact that meat eaters kill animals in order to eat them or use their skins. It makes sense to eat meat. I enjoy meat still, on the extremely rare occasion that I may try a family member's dish in a restaurant for example. What bothers me is the abuse and environmental damage the factory farming industry generates. Sows crammed in crates where they can't turn around, forced to have piglets over and over. Several hens in one battery cage that need their beaks cut off so they won't kill each other out of stress and aggression. Cows standing in their own filth, forced to eat corn instead of grass on barren lots. The animal waste is toxic and pollutes waterways, cows produce a large chuck of methane in the atmosphere, land is cleared in order to create fields to grow animal feed. Instead of using arable land to grow plants for humans, we use it to grow food for animals. Most of the food animals heat is converted to heat energy - and as you move up a trophic level more food is needed to sustain an animal. This means growing animals is a lot less efficient, land and water wise.

Though as a single individual I can't do much to remedy this, choosing not to eat meat helps make my contribution to the destruction of the planet just a little smaller, and I can rest easy knowing that I'm not contributing to the suffering of animals in factory farms. In fact, the reason I raise chickens is so I don't have to buy eggs produced by hens in tiny cages. So it isn't a meat problem for me (and many other vegetarians), it's more of an ethical/environmental problem. If I were ever in the position to raise my own meat, on healthy land in a sustainable manner, I'd be happy to eat it.

And I think that's why a lot of us are doing what we're doing. In fact, now that I know I can have a rooster dressed for a dollar a head, I hope to be putting a lot more of them in the freezer next year. It feels really good to be more self-sustaining this way, and not have to support commercial growers! My goal is someday to be a vegetarian (lacto-ovo-vegetarian, to be specific), but right now my family eats chicken and a very small amount of beef. I hope to provide ALL our own chicken meat soon, but will need another coop and a bigger freezer. It's good to have goals. Even better to be able to move toward fulfillment. But a family can only move forward as fast as its slowest member. .... so we grow together.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

I don't think anyone should be telling someone they have to eat one way or another. I can't stand when people hear I'm plant based and try to push meat eating at me... LIKE NO! I don't do it to save all the animals of the world, I do it for health reasons. People need to calm down with telling people what's good or bad for their body... It's not your body so who cares!

I'm totally in agreement with this! I once saw a cross-stitched pillow that said, "Don't 'SHOULD' on me!" I loved it. Nowadays people say, "you do you, and I'll do me!" And that's it in a nutshell. Remember "Live and let live?" And from the 60's, "Do your own thing!" And one of my favorites from when I was a little girl, "Mind yer own bee's wax!" Oh, I'm dating myself now! But it's nobody's business what I choose to eat, or not eat. Period.

 

[Aunt Angus]

Vegetarian here! I hate when vegetarians and/or vegans push their viewpoints on others. I don't do that because I dont judge. If someone asks, I'll explain my philosophy. But to go on a meat bird forum is not cool.

Additionally, I dont get offended when religious folx speak their truths. I have a very religious friend who prays for me when I am sick or when I'm dealing with problems. I appreciate the thought. Honestly. How thoughtful is that? It shows she really cares about my well being.

But like vegetarianism, I don't think it's ok to proselytize...

Oh, and:

I live in California...
I am ashamed that I am a "californian". This place is so backwards it offends me.

Me, too! Everywhere I travel, I get eye rolls and smirks when I say I'm a Californian... and I don't blame them. But, gosh, our state is beautiful. Maybe that's what makes us so insufferable. We're spoiled by gorgeous beaches, mountains, valleys, forests, deserts, cities....

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Nice comments, @Aunt Angus . But I have never met a Californian I didn't like.

Fond memories of your state: at 13, my uncle took me to my first classical music concert, by Arthur Fiedler and the Boston Pops, in San Francisco, I believe. I was transported. Streetcars! Oh my! My first truly fancy formal dress, with nylons and garters (pre-pantyhose days, lol), oh my. Don't disillusion me, I thought California was the end-all, be-all in ultimate sophistication!

 

[Acre4Me]

We eat meat here, all kinds. No guilt. We raise Meat chickens, and we’ve raised quail and eaten them. Grilled meats are delicious too! Vegans etc are often (not always), in my experience, a bit preachy or have expressed a disdainful look so often, they are experts. Funny enough, a fair number of vegans (That i know) have cats -carnivorous predators - the irony makes me smile.

 

[Acre4Me]

I curious, what advantages do quail provide? I don’t know anyone who keeps them. When I was a toddler my dad used to apply birdshot to wild ones in the front yard. But that was 40 years ago.

coturnix quail start to lay eggs by around 6 weeks. Cull most males for meat at 6 weeks or so. One male per 4-10 females gives You fertile eggs. They can be kept in small cages, so suitable for indoors or garage. Live and lay for a few years.

 

[Acre4Me]

I'm actually allergic to certain meat and that's why I'm plant based. I have no deficiencies and I get blood tests monthly. I'm very healthy and my Dr has me speak at his support group meetings. I have a very well balanced diet and I get all my protein and minerals/vitamins from plants.

When you eat meat and feel like death then eat plant based and feel like a million bucks... That to me says everything. A human can live plant based. I'm living proof.

It’s good you’ve found a diet that works for your particular medical needs! However, most people are not allergic to meat so I don’t think every human would feel like a million bucks on a plant based diet. But, for sure, not eating something you are allergic to is going to be far better than when you were eating the allergen.