[non-emergency] Marek's Homeopathic Treatment - Video

[O.C.Chick]

HERE ARE THE PRELIMINARY FINDINGS FROM THE PATHOLOGIST, WHICH I JUST RECEIVED VIA E-MAIL:

Preliminary report 1 (02/06/10): Multiple pale tan hepatic nodules and one nodule of thickened small intestine were the
most significant findings on gross necropsy examination. Possible causes for these changes includes Histomoniasis
(caused by Histomonas meleagridis, carried by earthworms that harbor the parasite ), avian leukosis viral tumors or a
bacterial infection. Microscopic examination will help differentiate between these etiologies. Additional work -up includes
bacterial cultures, nutritional heavy metal screening and avian virology testing. Fecal parasite check detected large
numbers of coccidia oocysts. (Histomonas meleagridis, while being a protozoal parasite, is usually not detected on fecal
floatation tests.) An updated report is forthcoming.

THE MOST SURPRISING PART IS THE REPORT OF LARGE NUMBERS OF COCCIDIA...She had tested NEGATIVE for coccidia in TWO fecal tests done by the vet. He DID still suspect coccidia due to flock history, and so she had been treated with an aggressive course of anticoccidials, immediately prior to, and during illness. First Corid (amprolium), and two weeks later, Sulmet. This was when she started showing signs of weakness again, and vet prescribed Albon (sulfa antibiotic which also works against most coccidia) and immediately afterward, SulfaTrimetheprim, a triple antibiotic that also works against coccidia.

HOW COULD SHE HAVE COCCIDIA AFTER ALL OF THAT MEDICATION??? I don't know what else I could have done!!! Maybe the coccidia was able to manifest again due to her weakened state, but now I am more baffled than ever!!! I hope that further tests will shed some light on this!!!​

 

[O.C.Chick]

HERE IS THE REST OF THE PRELIMINARY REPORT:

G r o s s O b s e r v a t i o n s
Necropsy of an 880 gram black and white spotted adult hen began at 11:30 am, February 5, 2010. The specimen is
submitted live, and humanely euthanized. The specimen exhibits neurologic disorder clinical behaviour, whereby the
head is poorly controlled by the neck musculature, the head drops and twists, and the neck twists irregularly. The
specimen is mildly obtunded.

The specimen is markedly thin, with prominent keel bone exposure. Feather coat is clean and full. Internal fat reserves
are depleted. The liver contains multifocal pale tan firm plaques to nodules, up to 5mm in diameter, that are scattered
throughout the liver parenchyma and surface capsule. There are > 20 nodules. There is a focal solitary nodule of the
duodenum within the duodenal loop, approximately 15mm in diameter, where the duodenal walls are markedly
thickened by firm homogenous tissue. There is scant feed within the crop, proventriculus and gizzard. The small
intestine contains scant dark green mucoid digesta. The ceca and colon contains dark green pasty to semifluid digesta .
The ovary is small and inactive. The spleen is of expected size. The brain and cranium are unremarkable. No additional
lesions are noted in remaining organ systems.
B

 

[mypicklebird]

Most pathology reports I have seen on ill chickens have coccidia. It is ubiquitous in the environment. They are constantly being exposed to the organism through dirt ingestion. The animals get exposed every day, and if they survive the initial infection (one their own or with help via medications) they become more or less immune. An ill bird gets suppressed, and the organism can get a foot hold again. The drugs you gave (albon and amprolium) interfere with the coccidia's reproduction (and decrease the symptoms) but the drug(s) do NOT kill the organism. This is the difference between coccidiostats and coccidiocidal drugs. This is a different subject, but the medications to kill coccidia are not readily available in the US- but exist elsewhere. So I would not be surprised at all to see coccidia on a necropsy report on a debilitated bird- especially with a known history of it in the soil. Every one of your birds will have some degree of infection- it just does not make them sick.

Avian leukosis (lymphoid leukosis) would be a bummer if this is the cause of her illness, but IMO would be better than Marek's. LL's primary route of transmission is vertical (hen to egg to chick ect) so it is easier to eradicate from the flock. It does not have the really frustrating exist forever in the environment problem that Marek's has.

If it turns out to be primarily a histomoniasis issue, you can probably help this problem in the future by deworming everyone on a very regular basis. The protozoal org is carried by roundworms, transmitted by earthworms.... kill the round worms & prevent the transmission of the protozoal bug.

O.C.Chick :

HERE ARE THE PRELIMINARY FINDINGS FROM THE PATHOLOGIST, WHICH I JUST RECEIVED VIA E-MAIL:

Preliminary report 1 (02/06/10): Multiple pale tan hepatic nodules and one nodule of thickened small intestine were the
most significant findings on gross necropsy examination. Possible causes for these changes includes Histomoniasis
(caused by Histomonas meleagridis, carried by earthworms that harbor the parasite ), avian leukosis viral tumors or a
bacterial infection. Microscopic examination will help differentiate between these etiologies. Additional work -up includes
bacterial cultures, nutritional heavy metal screening and avian virology testing. Fecal parasite check detected large
numbers of coccidia oocysts. (Histomonas meleagridis, while being a protozoal parasite, is usually not detected on fecal
floatation tests.) An updated report is forthcoming.

THE MOST SURPRISING PART IS THE REPORT OF LARGE NUMBERS OF COCCIDIA...She had tested NEGATIVE for coccidia in TWO fecal tests done by the vet. He DID still suspect coccidia due to flock history, and so she had been treated with an aggressive course of anticoccidials, immediately prior to, and during illness. First Corid (amprolium), and two weeks later, Sulmet. This was when she started showing signs of weakness again, and vet prescribed Albon (sulfa antibiotic which also works against most coccidia) and immediately afterward, SulfaTrimetheprim, a triple antibiotic that also works against coccidia.

HOW COULD SHE HAVE COCCIDIA AFTER ALL OF THAT MEDICATION??? I don't know what else I could have done!!! Maybe the coccidia was able to manifest again due to her weakened state, but now I am more baffled than ever!!! I hope that further tests will shed some light on this!!!​

 

[O.C.Chick]

Thanks MyPickleBird. When I saw coccidia on the report I had the horrible thought that maybe I could have prevented this from happening but didn't dose the medication correctly or something like that, and I've been driving myself crazy with the "what if's"...

Regarding Histomonas, your information about worming is very interesting, and answers a question that FowlPlayFox asked:

If it turns out to be primarily a histomoniasis issue, you can probably help this problem in the future by deworming everyone on a very regular basis. The protozoal org is carried by roundworms, transmitted by earthworms.... kill the round worms & prevent the transmission of the protozoal bug.

I will be very surprised if it is Histamonas since I live in such an urban area with no other chickens, unless my original chicks that had coccidia could have carried Histamonas too.

Hope we'll have more conclusive information soon.​

 

[pips&peeps]

If it does turn out to be LL, I would see if your State Vet can contact the Vet or Dept of Ag in the State were the birds originated from. The seller needs to be notified the birds have LL and they shouldn't sell any more chicks, birds or hatching eggs.

Because I don't believe if you contact the seller they will stop.

I agree with mypicklebird that a sick bird will usually turn up with cocci, it's secondary to alot of illnesses beause of poor immune response.

 

[O.C.Chick]

Hopefully we'll have more conclusive information soon. I hatched these three from NPIP Certified eggs...Now I only have the one Appenzeller hen, and my friend has the rooster. It would be bad enough if any more in my flock get sick, but even worse if I'm responsible for giving a LL-infected rooster to my friend and exposing her entire flock. I pray this is not the case!

 

[pips&peeps]

Do you have a diagnosis yet?

 

[O.C.Chick]

I spoke to the pathologist on Monday, and she hoped they'd have the rest of the results (viral, bacterial, and slides) back by the end of day today. Also, I asked her about Marek's (which I had forgotten to clarify last week), and she had not ruled it out...She had only commented on the obvious physical evidence in the initial necropsy, and Marek's is diagnosed or ruled out by the series of tests that (hopefully) comes back from the lab today.

I'll definitely post the conclusion s soon as I receive them...I am very anxiously awaiting what they will reveal.

 

[pips&peeps]

Sometimes the ball gets dropped on the callback. Maybe you should call them.

 

[O.C.Chick]

I spoke to the pathologist today and she said she is still unable to diagnose the specific condition...She is still waiting on the brain slides and several other tests that might confirm or rule out Marek's and hopefully explain the neck twisting. She did show the existing liver and related nodule slides to a poultry pathologist, and he felt that it was definitely a type of lymphoma, but could not rule out Marek's or diagnose LL without the other test results.

So...Still unsure as to what exactly it is. The rest of the tests should be back next week, so hopefully they'll know more then. In the meantime, she did make me feel a little better in that there was nothing I could have done to save her.