Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[missnu01]

I'll go out on a limb here... If the ones that died, died with *any* of the many Marek's symptoms, I'd be willing to bet money that they died of Marek's. Dr Shivaprasad at UC Davis said that it is one of the most common causes of death that they see. Contact a lab near you and ask them how common it is.

Denial, it's not just a river in Egypt!

But, I made a post later that directly pertains to this...On the same state website about poultry issues, can't remember the state now, but might have been texas...? Anyway...on this site it said that most adult birds have been exposed and survived...then it later goes on to say that most deaths where a bird just drops dead for no apparent reason are attributed to marek's as the birds do test positive...but they don't know if the Marek's is what killed them or not...they just know that at some point the bird was exposed to the disease and was seemingly unharmed for many years. there isn't enough science behind any of it...

Like someone said hmm this keeps killing chickens...oh well.
I think of it as a luck of the draw kind of thing...
You pick a chick that may or may not survive exposure...but eventually through breeding chickens that have had contact and survived you are building a stronger chicken population, until you go to the feed store and pick up a different strain than the one you have at home.
Survival of the fittest and all that jazz.

 

[casportpony]

And here is another issue I wonder about anytime I read up on Marek's...I read that most adult birds have been exposed and survived and that is how they became adult chickens...Then I also read that a lot of times when an adult bird drops dead for no apparent reason, and are sent in for necropsies, that the death is attributed to Marek's because the birds test positive...But is it the Mareks that caused the chickens to fall over dead? Or was it something else, and they just so happened to be a healthy survivor of Marek's? I dont' know, and neither does the science behind the whole thing...so It is debatable to say the least.

Send an email to an avian pathologist like Dr. Shivaprasad at UC Davis, he might have more answers for you.

 

[Haunted55]

It's the secondary illnesses that get them more than the Marek's. The only time I have ever seen Marek's take a bird is with the occular form. I am guessing that when this form of it comes out, the tumors are pressing on their brain. I've never had a bird last more than 2 weeks once the eyes are involved. I've never been able to pin a Vet down on this so like I said...guessing. Makes as much sense as anything else.

As for the breeding for immunity, strength, whatever you want to call it, I am, or at least trying. I've said this before and I'm sure I will again....what I have been told about bringing new birds in is this. Vaccinate with all 3 vaccines. At home all you can get is the one, the turkey Marek's vaccine, better than nothing but still isn't going to cover it all. The others would have to be done by a hatchey or some other facility that has the equipment to keep and administer them. It does take time for the vaccine to work in the chicks and even after the 2 week period, some research has said, they can still shed some of the Marek's in their droppings, which can reactivate your existing Marek's, in your current flock. The new chicks have still not been able to build up all of the defences they would need to be with the others already here. That would take 6 months to a year, and even with that time frame, there isn't any guarantee that it would be 100% survival rate. It could still be total wipe out of new and old. So you close your flock, nothing in and nothing out.

The one thing I have been told repeatedly and am seeing myself, is this, small exposure to Marek's is good, an 'in your face' exposure isn't. Even with vaccinated birds, they do not belong with birds already exposed or showing symptoms. Not in the same building, or even close to it. They need small doses of what you or I have, over an extended period of time. Only way to keep the Marek's from mutating into a more virulent form.

 

[casportpony]

Funny that your ocular affected birds die so quickly, because I've noticed the exact opposite on all but one of mine. Several of mine have had the ocular changes for over two years, but the last one, her eye was different, so I'm guessing the brain was involved.

I spoke with Dr. Shivaprasad yesterday and told him about her... He was bummed that I didn't send her off for a necropsy. He said that he's very interested in the eyes. Now I wish I hadn't buried her.

 

[missnu01]

Mine just lost their motor functions. They were still there, but their bodies didn't work. Super sad. Cull to help them really. Just stuck flopping around. Heart breaking.

 

[missnu01]

It's the secondary illnesses that get them more than the Marek's. The only time I have ever seen Marek's take a bird is with the occular form. I am guessing that when this form of it comes out, the tumors are pressing on their brain. I've never had a bird last more than 2 weeks once the eyes are involved. I've never been able to pin a Vet down on this so like I said...guessing. Makes as much sense as anything else.

As for the breeding for immunity, strength, whatever you want to call it, I am, or at least trying. I've said this before and I'm sure I will again....what I have been told about bringing new birds in is this. Vaccinate with all 3 vaccines. At home all you can get is the one, the turkey Marek's vaccine, better than nothing but still isn't going to cover it all. The others would have to be done by a hatchey or some other facility that has the equipment to keep and administer them. It does take time for the vaccine to work in the chicks and even after the 2 week period, some research has said, they can still shed some of the Marek's in their droppings, which can reactivate your existing Marek's, in your current flock. The new chicks have still not been able to build up all of the defences they would need to be with the others already here. That would take 6 months to a year, and even with that time frame, there isn't any guarantee that it would be 100% survival rate. It could still be total wipe out of new and old. So you close your flock, nothing in and nothing out.

The one thing I have been told repeatedly and am seeing myself, is this, small exposure to Marek's is good, an 'in your face' exposure isn't. Even with vaccinated birds, they do not belong with birds already exposed or showing symptoms. Not in the same building, or even close to it. They need small doses of what you or I have, over an extended period of time. Only way to keep the Marek's from mutating into a more virulent form.

So instead of trying to get more chicks I should just start hatching the eggs from my current chickens?
Because I don't like that idea. The mama hen and chicks are in between bantam and large fowl size almost, but my main rooster is a really big White Rock rooster, so I guess that wouldn't be a bad idea...Would save me money...
but we want to get some meat birds, and I have a few breeds in mind that I would like to have as part of the start of my flock...as opposed to only these chickens I have currently. I am also looking for chickens that lay well and the mama hen doesn't fall into that category....so it is unlikely that her offspring will do much better. Anyway, I knew there could be losses in the new chicks, but I didn't know it might make my current chickens sick as well...

 

[missnu01]

While they are none but 3 of 10 that have what I am looking for I am still very fond of them...but I started with chickens for the eggs and meat. So I always planned on getting more chicks to start building my "perfect flock" My own special mutt basically...and most of my current chickens don't fit the bill. I like my main rooster, and I like the 2 largest hens, a buff orpington, and what I think is a white rock leghorn mix. I'm not sure. Was told he was a leghorn, but she seems a good bit too heavy, and aren't leghorn eggs supposed to be white? Because hers are sort of offwhite...or does that fall into white...they are like a super super super light brown color...None of them are close to store bought white...
Anyway I am easily distracted this time of evening...Sorry...but I really like my current chickens...but I super super super want some new breeds to start my personal chicken...If I only hatch eggs from large hens will they be more likely to be large, even though there are 2 smaller roosters? A silkie and a barnyard mix cockerel that is too mixed to even guess at...He is pretty much an end result of someone else cultivating their perfect mutt. They are small so they can get away...so I guess that is good for free ranging, but I need more than 3 or 4 eggs a week...I would also like to be able to feed 5 people from a single chicken, so small ones aren't really going to be best. Not worth dressing out a 2-3 lb bird to me. Darnit with the ramblling...I quit.

 

[casportpony]

Mine just lost their motor functions. They were still there, but their bodies didn't work. Super sad. Cull to help them really. Just stuck flopping around. Heart breaking.

 

I've had a few do that, too. then I tube feed them, but they die anyway, but not because they aren't being fed enough or the wrong way.

 

[Haunted55]

Funny that your ocular affected birds die so quickly, because I've noticed the exact opposite on all but one of mine. Several of mine have had the ocular changes for over two years, but the last one, her eye was different, so I'm guessing the brain was involved.

I spoke with Dr. Shivaprasad yesterday and told him about her... He was bummed that I didn't send her off for a necropsy. He said that he's very interested in the eyes. Now I wish I hadn't buried her.

How was it different? Color? Pupil changes? My birds have gone from a 'normal' brown iris color to a grey/green, one even took on a blueish hue. The ones that have the eye color change are the ones that die. Now, even more weird, I have a couple in the control group that were hatched with the greyish green eyes. Does this mean that this form of the Marek's was passed through the egg? Or is it a change, genetically, caused by Marek's, in the survivor that passed this eye color on. These birds, it is showing in, are dark brown to black, black jersey giant, ameraucana and australorp mutts. Normally, as in the parents, their eyes should be a dark color. It's just plain strange and something that really sticks out to me.

Casportpony, I have been there mysellf. I've been thinking it may be a really good idea to start taking a lot of pictures as well as notes. Sometimes I actually do write stuff down, lol. Maybe he couldn't do a 'hands on' but pictures do go a long way in showing the issues. You know, I remember reading somewhere that human eye color can change overnight from trauma, but it has to be pretty severe. Car accident, head injury, etc.. I don't know if the color change was permanent or something that passed as the injuries healed. Another thing, it's real easy to sit here and write about this stuff but when you walk away from the computer and find one of your birds dead or dying, it's kinda hard to stay objective.

 

[casportpony]

Here is one with color change and pupil change. He also has bumble foot, so he's inside right now.


This is the one that died most recently. This was her normal eye. She was inside when I took the picture, so the pupil is dilated.


This was the abnormal one.