Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[Haunted55]

So instead of trying to get more chicks I should just start hatching the eggs from my current chickens?
Because I don't like that idea. The mama hen and chicks are in between bantam and large fowl size almost, but my main rooster is a really big White Rock rooster, so I guess that wouldn't be a bad idea...Would save me money...
but we want to get some meat birds, and I have a few breeds in mind that I would like to have as part of the start of my flock...as opposed to only these chickens I have currently. I am also looking for chickens that lay well and the mama hen doesn't fall into that category....so it is unlikely that her offspring will do much better. Anyway, I knew there could be losses in the new chicks, but I didn't know it might make my current chickens sick as well...

That's why I have Dark Cornish and Jersey Giants. I had white Rocks but they were wiped out as were the female Jersey Giants just recently. I'd try hatching. The size of the hens isn't that much different than the roo if I read that correctly and let's face it...the deed is done quick enough that she wouldn't be crushed. I am getting new birds, but as i said, I have the land, I can put up another building that will house the new birds away from the old.

Start small is my suggestion and know you will continue to lose birds. It's just the way it is now. Yes, the Marek's can change with the type or types you have there. I would send you eggs later on if you wanted. This too is a gamble though because we don't know the strain that has affected our flocks. The second necropsy done for one of mine, the tech doing it didn't record that finding. Don't cha just love ineptitude? Hatch some of your birds and see what happens. Their offspring are going to be more full sized than the current hens. Then once they are big enough...breed them as well. By the second hatching of survivor's, infected hen & roo = control group 1 & any roo from this group or go back to the original roo = control group 2. Do big hatches, there will be losses. If you can get a viable control group #2, I think it may be time to try hatching eggs from someone elses Marek's survivors. I would be thinking about how you could set up something seperate from where your birds are now. A pallet house, anything. Your best chances are going to come from seperation and slow exposure.

 

[Haunted55]

I've had a few do that, too. then I tube feed them, but they die anyway, but not because they aren't being fed enough or the wrong way.

It's not just that, it's that their systems cannot process the food properly any more. No matter how many feedings or vitamins we give them....it just doesn't work and they waste away. My survivors are eating as much as any meat bird I have ever raised and I still have undersized and wasting birds. Especially the hens.

 

[Haunted55]

Here is one with color change and pupil change. He also has bumble foot, so he's inside right now.


This is the one that died most recently. This was her normal eye. She was inside when I took the picture, so the pupil is dilated.


This was the abnormal one.

Yes, I've had this as well. The 'keyhole' pupil and the blindness with the one that died. Now yours are showing the 'swelling' I've had here as well. I have been told time and again that this isn't from the Marek's. I am finding myself not believing that anymore...Mine didn't have any nasal, respiratory infection, they had Marek's and I'm convinced that's what made the eyes appear to be prominent compared to all of the 'normal', used very loosely here, chickens. I am going to see if I can get some pics of my bird's eyes. It really is a very unchicken like color. This last picture, look at the color as it appears in the top of the eye. Even though this is probably caused by light refraction in this picture, this is very close the real color of my control group's eye color. That weird gray/green color is the color of their iris.

 

[Haunted55]

Tonight I started the incubator and put in a baker's dozen eggs from my control group #1. These chicks, if they hatch, will be twice removed from the Marek's survivors from last summer, ie; great grandchildren. Control group #1 is a mix of Ameraucana, Australorp, Black Jersey Giant and Golden Comet. The rooster is a Ameraucana and Australorp mix. I wanted to try a hatch of their eggs before the 6 month mark which comes up around the middle of April. Just in case.....I am afraid some or even all will start showing signs of the eye issues that have always seemed to hit, the survivors, right around their 6 month birthday. I am crossing fingers, eyes and toes that this will not be the case with this group, but better safe than sorry.

They're eggs started small but have steadily gotten larger so they are now normal sized, unlike their parents who have small eggs still. [ 1 1/8 size of a silkies egg] Control group # 1 is growing to normal size and have good heft to them. Sorry, I do need to get out there with the scale. These birds are eating normal amounts of feed, unlike their parents who need to eat like meat birds do. I have an 11 lbs. feeder in their room and it is emptied by 23 birds everyday. Plus scratch and treats daily and all the eggs they can steal. It's a trip.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote: Yup. That's why have so many roosters. I can't give them to anyone.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:

They drop dead because they literally starved to death from wasting, and with all those feathers, and the fact that they act "normal", they seem to drop dead. And this whole time they are growing those tumors inside.

 

[seminolewind]

It's the secondary illnesses that get them more than the Marek's. The only time I have ever seen Marek's take a bird is with the occular form. I am guessing that when this form of it comes out, the tumors are pressing on their brain. I've never had a bird last more than 2 weeks once the eyes are involved. I've never been able to pin a Vet down on this so like I said...guessing. Makes as much sense as anything else.

As for the breeding for immunity, strength, whatever you want to call it, I am, or at least trying. I've said this before and I'm sure I will again....what I have been told about bringing new birds in is this. Vaccinate with all 3 vaccines. At home all you can get is the one, the turkey Marek's vaccine, better than nothing but still isn't going to cover it all. The others would have to be done by a hatchey or some other facility that has the equipment to keep and administer them. It does take time for the vaccine to work in the chicks and even after the 2 week period, some research has said, they can still shed some of the Marek's in their droppings, which can reactivate your existing Marek's, in your current flock. The new chicks have still not been able to build up all of the defences they would need to be with the others already here. That would take 6 months to a year, and even with that time frame, there isn't any guarantee that it would be 100% survival rate. It could still be total wipe out of new and old. So you close your flock, nothing in and nothing out.

The one thing I have been told repeatedly and am seeing myself, is this, small exposure to Marek's is good, an 'in your face' exposure isn't. Even with vaccinated birds, they do not belong with birds already exposed or showing symptoms. Not in the same building, or even close to it. They need small doses of what you or I have, over an extended period of time. Only way to keep the Marek's from mutating into a more virulent form.

I had 2 batches of silkies born to parents that were exposed and survived. I am currently letting my silkie sit on MY eggs from my exposed hens. Most likely, they will be resistant. These ones won't be vaccinated. I still have a few silkies that were exposed from 3 years ago, and still living. And a silkie roo who is 4.5 years old. His brother was the first to die from Marek's.

Of my birds, the original ones from 2007, only 2 died. The rest were all under 8 months old. I also hatched other chicks that were fine. My theory is that they may have come from an exposed flock, and had some resistance.

 

[Haunted55]

I had 2 batches of silkies born to parents that were exposed and survived. I am currently letting my silkie sit on MY eggs from my exposed hens. Most likely, they will be resistant. These ones won't be vaccinated. I still have a few silkies that were exposed from 3 years ago, and still living. And a silkie roo who is 4.5 years old. His brother was the first to die from Marek's.

Of my birds, the original ones from 2007, only 2 died. The rest were all under 8 months old. I also hatched other chicks that were fine. My theory is that they may have come from an exposed flock, and had some resistance.

Seminole I hope you're right. We've been doing a lot of soul searching here lately, to cull or not. I can't do it. I look these poor little buggers in the eyes and I see trust and I can't bring myself to violate that trust. We will continue to take them as needed to stop suffering but we go forward from here. What else is there now? You have been an inspiration to me since we met up last Summer. You are the one who taught me there is life after Marek's. Not much of one sometimes, lol, but life. I am going to 'keep on, keeping on' and see where it brings me and my birds. I hope these musings will help someone else and educate them on how serious this is and how it needs to be avoided at all costs!

 

[casportpony]

They drop dead because they literally starved to death from wasting, and with all those feathers, and the fact that they act "normal", they seem to drop dead. And this whole time they are growing those tumors inside.

I've had them waste away to nothing even though I was tube feeding them, and if there is one thing I'm good at, it's tubing. Go figure... guess the tumors get them in the end not matter what you do.

 

[Haunted55]

I've had them waste away to nothing even though I was tube feeding them, and if there is one thing I'm good at, it's tubing. Go figure... guess the tumors get them in the end not matter what you do.

I really think their stomachs stop being able to process the feed. My Mom died from periteneal cancer and that's what happened to her. The tumors pushing on her guts stopped them from working. It wasn't that they couldn't, they could. Weird, some type of chemical reaction in the body that shut them down long before they were occluded by the mass. To me it seems to be the same with these birds, like they are giving up the ghost long before they need to.