Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[Elaine Elder]

Sorry for your losses.
I'm dealing with MG myself.
the quickest way to euthanize at home is a paper feed bag tied around a car tailpipe. There is only a little struggle. I did over 50 juveniles over a week. Unfortunately culling does not get rid of MG. A lot of people say burn the carcass of culled birds. That's easier said than done. Believe it or not, but mulching is the preferred method Of disposal. Dead in middle on bottom with grass clippings and pine shavings. The high Temps inside the mulch pile will kill most pathogens. I have a tractor, so I dug a hole, covered dead birds with lime and buried them. Worst week of my life until I was faced with killing the rest. MG - should call it chickenbane.

 

[alibabba]

Elaine Elder. Thank you for that.

But one year the dog brought baby bunnies fro the nest and they got a bit scraped. Fly strike - maggots. Rescue said, they will not survive. I had to take a shovel....I missed twice, It was horrible.

I was just thinking today how, when it comes to it, I will have to do it. Morbid. Like maybe some kind of OTC meds....to go to sleep. But then I wondered about the Carbon Monoxide. Painless, dark bag or bin. No stress to the pets.

 

[alibabba]

I saw a post around here someplace that a State Vet advised that Marek's is truly everywhere... My pathologist (State Avian specialist) stated the same. And something else of interest...

I moaned to her a bit about my dashed dream to have a tiny backyard hobby of breeding and buying chicks to raise and sell. I said I was planning on vaccinating every bird here and every chick we get, but I now I can't sell any.

She said...to the effect of, not so! Offering vaccinated chicks is offering "added value". Because, as she said before. it is everywhere.


There is a recent University( I think), peer reviewed study (that I will have to find, I apologize for not hunting it down now) that found that absolutely booster vaccination and vaccinating adults is a help, I believe the caveat was using a different vaccine that the first. I mean a help in that, birds that are exposed will fight the virus and live.


I don't want to start a debate, I just want to share the information that I had, so that other critical thinkers can find their own truth based on reliable sources.

Personal Experience is really gold around here though.

 

[BigKitty]

I am terribly sorry to intrude on this forum and wish marek the best but I can't sleep the guilt is killing me with this and I can't figure out how to make my own forum so here it is....So I had a hen a little over 3 who began to have and enlarged water balloon sized abdomen about a month ago as a result I put her on an antibiotic to help which it did...but when I took her off them her abdomen got even larger and she began sitting upright like a penguin (due to her extra belly weight) her breathing was also labored at certain times

So I put her on another antibiotic on my front porch yesterday with food and water elevated so she could reach in her penguin stance and she ate and drank well enough...but when I lifted her to let her get some grass she began sneezing rapidly so I sat her back down and she was okay enough but later that night I had to put her in the coop so I picked her up again she began sneezing rapidly again until her face was purple I tried to sit her up right again but I was too late she suffocated and began to spectate mucus from her mouth...I've felt awful about this I'm thinking if I hadn't of disturbed the fluid in her abdomen she might of made it but I had to move her. What do you think went wrong? Did I kill her? Could she have been saved? I keep thinking I could have positioned her so her air ways could have settled but she was flopping all over the place and It was rather scary honestly

 

[alibabba]

Seminole Wind,

I figured all those oats couldn't be good for them.

I am so ridiculous. Made them a version of my super salad in the food processor...onions/garlic, turmeric, cayenne, applesauce, carrots, salmon, shrimp to add to their oats, tomatoes, eggs, tuna, cat food and 15 grain bread and regular type food(I have to hide that in there). I found a nice corn baby food I might mix in too. It has 170 mg potassium per jar. Wow! I change it up...

I like to see a nice fat hen myself!

My little bantam pullet was about to perish last Friday. She was going to go by morning I am sure... Thanks to casportpony!!! she helped be get her better hydrated overnight and the next morning she was eating and drinking, gobbling as a matter of fact.

She weighed 18.02 oz on Saturday and today(Tues) she weighed 18.9 oz (D'uccle breed weight from the internet should be approx 22 oz, Rooster 26 oz. )

So, they are not wasting right now...but (as I jinx it, gaining). But yet, no leg strength to walk and bad balance. I don't mind having them as special needs - They are really easy to catch and take care of. -Gallows humor The rooster would be ok the way he is in a special pen. The hen still weak and falls forward and to the side.

Wormed and corrided over the weekend also. No miracles, but at least those problems are dealt with and maybe they have more strength. Next trial is antibiotics...I am going to the Vet and asking for big guns and fecal.... Marek's a disease of exclusion.

 

[alibabba]

Big Kitty - it sounds like a chronic problem ascites? That doesn't really go away, all though people I have read about drain and treat for a time... She would have probably passed overnight if she was in that delicate a condition. I don't think you should feel guilty about picking her up at all.

 

[alibabba]

So say, you rent a barn to bring your new chickens to for quarantine. Then after 60 days (a very generous quarantine) you integrate them with your flock. The stress kicks in Marek's and a couple become ill. It's at both your place and the rented barn because these birds were carriers. And actually it was probably at both places to begin with. IMHO.

 

[seminolewind]

Seminole Wind,

I figured all those oats couldn't be good for them.

I am so ridiculous. Made them a version of my super salad in the food processor...onions/garlic, turmeric, cayenne, applesauce, carrots, salmon, shrimp to add to their oats, tomatoes, eggs, tuna, cat food and 15 grain bread and regular type food(I have to hide that in there). I found a nice corn baby food I might mix in too. It has 170 mg potassium per jar. Wow! I change it up...

I like to see a nice fat hen myself!

My little bantam pullet was about to perish last Friday. She was going to go by morning I am sure... Thanks to casportpony!!! she helped be get her better hydrated overnight and the next morning she was eating and drinking, gobbling as a matter of fact.

She weighed 18.02 oz on Saturday and today(Tues) she weighed 18.9 oz (D'uccle breed weight from the internet should be approx 22 oz, Rooster 26 oz. )

So, they are not wasting right now...but (as I jinx it, gaining). But yet, no leg strength to walk and bad balance. I don't mind having them as special needs - They are really easy to catch and take care of. -Gallows humor The rooster would be ok the way he is in a special pen. The hen still weak and falls forward and to the side.

Wormed and corrided over the weekend also. No miracles, but at least those problems are dealt with and maybe they have more strength. Next trial is antibiotics...I am going to the Vet and asking for big guns and fecal.... Marek's a disease of exclusion.

You know, baby food in jars would have it's uses. I have a 4 week old chick who is skin and bones and I'm feeding with a tube, but it's not going anywhere. I got out the scale (another Casportpony suggestion).

That's a new way of looking at it for me or maybe a label for what we do, Marek's a disease of exclusion. I think if my chickens are skinny and there's no reason for it, I'll worm, then treat for everything else all at once.

I have to say that the 4 week old a week ago was wing walking and curling her head under, and I've hydrated her with a tube, and those symptoms disappeared. Hmmm. I think that's another good thing to consider if someone "thinks" their chicken has Marek's, and another thing to exclude.

I JUST WANT FAT CHICKENS!!!

 

[seminolewind]

I am terribly sorry to intrude on this forum and wish marek the best but I can't sleep the guilt is killing me with this and I can't figure out how to make my own forum so here it is....So I had a hen a little over 3 who began to have and enlarged water balloon sized abdomen about a month ago as a result I put her on an antibiotic to help which it did...but when I took her off them her abdomen got even larger and she began sitting upright like a penguin (due to her extra belly weight) her breathing was also labored at certain times

So I put her on another antibiotic on my front porch yesterday with food and water elevated so she could reach in her penguin stance and she ate and drank well enough...but when I lifted her to let her get some grass she began sneezing rapidly so I sat her back down and she was okay enough but later that night I had to put her in the coop so I picked her up again she began sneezing rapidly again until her face was purple I tried to sit her up right again but I was too late she suffocated and began to spectate mucus from her mouth...I've felt awful about this I'm thinking if I hadn't of disturbed the fluid in her abdomen she might of made it but I had to move her. What do you think went wrong? Did I kill her? Could she have been saved? I keep thinking I could have positioned her so her air ways could have settled but she was flopping all over the place and It was rather scary honestly

Hi BigKitty. I know the feeling. No you didn't kill her. She was dying anyway. Ascites is not really curable and eventually , it seems, she would have drowned herself. It's sad. I had a silkie who was barely walking and eating and I picked her up one day to trim her butt feathers and she started gasping and died. I felt the same way.

 

[rebrascora]

Back to add another ray of sunshine through the dark cloud that is Marek;s.....

I left my two Marek's girls out with the flock all day yesterday (no cage) and they did great!
Hoppity realised that if she hung around with Harry he would protect her from Henry's advances and also from being bullied by the little oiks (young leghorns have such an attitude!).
Hope (I have eventually given her a name and it couldn't be more appropriate) seemed more confident and integrated with the older ladies, and it was wonderful to see her dust bathing and sunbathing with them.... in fact several times I mistook her for her sister, she was so relaxed and well integrated.

Anyway, when I went up to put them away, I had a few chores to do first and Hope traipsed around the yard after me whilst I did them, like she was my shadow. She is walking so well there is just a hint of lameness and a slightly squiffy tail to indicate that she is not normal. I can't believe that in January she was so bad, lying on her side with her legs stuck out that I had twice set myself/her a DEAD line to cull, but just wasn't quite ready to give up on her. I'm getting so much pleasure from her now both as a pet, as well as 4 eggs a week, I'm SO, VERY, VERY pleased I hesitated.
Hoppity on the other hand was waiting in the hen house for me to open the palace (infirmary) gates and hand her in before serving supper ....she was "not amused" at having to mix with the peasants and her prince charming (Harry), was insufferably attending to other ladies! Apparently you just can't get the staff these days!!

We have had sensational weather for 2 weeks now and I'm dreading it coming to an end (this weekend) because these girls have benefitted so much from it.

I was talking to a local breeder last night and he says that they are usually OK here for Mareks once they make it past 18 weeks. I will be so relieved if that is the case.

The chicks are 2 weeks old and growing fast.... just another 16 to go! Yesterday they went into the cage that the Marek's girls have been in through the day, but on new ground. They are in the hen house with the others overnight so the cage exposure is irrelevant in my opinion since they've already probably had maximum contact with the virus at night.

I don't mean to be critical and I know this will be very contentious, but I just want to throw it out there for some consideration....I appreciate why you throw a "cocktail" of chemicals at your birds the moment they start looking sick, but is it possible that the physical act of giving them these treatments stresses them as well as the chemicals themselves, stressing their digestive system. I'm sure you are right that my strain of Marek's is much less virulent, but as another poster said, keeping hens happy and stress free is a key factor. I'm definitely seeing this with mine. I haven't wormed or given antibiotics or any other drug (just a bit of turmeric and black pepper and garlic occasionally in their feed and ACV daily in their water) and more recently fermented feed (actually I think I started that around January time which is when things started to improve but to be honest they were eating more soaked mixed corn than anything else, as that is what they wanted and I was just happy for them to eat anything)

Anyway, whilst it has been nerve wracking at times, I'm finding both with my poultry keeping and my bee keeping, that not intervening but just providing care and support, seems to be more successful than treatment. This is only my experience in my situation and perhaps my house of card will come down on my head in the near future.... I do half expect it to.... but at the moment (and I have a lot more experience with beekeeping than poultry) I am more confident to let mother nature take care of things than to intervene. I accept that there will be fatalities but those of you who use chemicals also have those. I'm not against drugs per se, but I do think that we can get drawn into becoming too dependent on them and that they become our first resort when things go wrong.