Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[salt and pepper]

Know what this makes me think of???? "Poison ivey-ayaaay, poison ivey-ayaayay." Lol! sorry...couldn't resist. yeah I can imagine they would feel a lot better! I have something going on here that I just cannot figure out. Birds look like they have mites, but have treated and checked and they still look like Dr. Suess critters.

Hmmmm, molt? stress? lice? worms? Just throwing out ideas, lol. Yeah I'M the one with the poison ivy! lol

 

[seminolewind]

Quote: That's disgusting. Any health violations? Sounds like you are a sitting duck.
Seems like my last ordeals all turned to necrotic enteritis and this stuff can actually have no noticeable symptoms, or symptoms only within hours of death. My first 3 got it last year being on medicated feed. Sulfadimethoxine is the one that's okay on their system, it's the other sulfa........ that's hard on their system. The added benefit to sulfadimethoxine is that it's also an antibiotic.

 

[Haunted55]

That's disgusting. Any health violations? Sounds like you are a sitting duck.
Seems like my last ordeals all turned to necrotic enteritis and this stuff can actually have no noticeable symptoms, or symptoms only within hours of death. My first 3 got it last year being on medicated feed. Sulfadimethoxine is the one that's okay on their system, it's the other sulfa........ that's hard on their system. The added benefit to sulfadimethoxine is that it's also an antibiotic.

True but Sulmet is the best choice for the enteritis. I had to treat ducks, geese and chickens for it last year. 1 course and gone. Probiotics, vitamins and people oatmeal afterwards and everyone was fine.

I forgot this....the one symptom I saw was wing twitching. I have no idea why, I just know that the one bird who did die from it was twitching her wings, first one side then the other, non stop. this was a duck I lost but the chickens were doing it as well, more subtle, but there. The best way to describe it is like a person shrugging first one shoulder and then the other. Over and over. Again, no clue why they showed this symptom but they did.

 

[Haunted55]

Oh...lots of violations over the years, but we have no police here in this town, the State doesn't like to be bothered, lol. I make phone calls and scream a lot and if that gets me no where, I drive to Augusta and sit outside their office and tell everyone coming or going why I'm there. I think the longest I had to wait was 15 mins., lol. Yeah...I'm one of them. Amazing how quiclkly they can do their job with that kind of incentive. Even better, after waiting 5 mins., you pull out your cell and ask the receptionist if she has the phone number for the [put the name of your major newspaper here], you know you have the number but it would be quicker to get it from her than to keep looking.

This area runs on the 'good ole boy system' in this town. After a few visits from the State of maine EPA, Inland Fisheries and Wildlife to name a couple, the town does now try to keep me quiet by watching what he's doing a bit more closely. The town owns the land, he just leases it from them and they found out they are ultimately responsible for the 'use' of said land.

Last year when I found the Marek's in my flock, this was the first thing I thought of. I was kind of beaten before I even started. It's funny, the first year of having them, I never had any issues like this at all. Course, it was dry that year too.

 

[Haunted55]

One more, today I found one of the chicks from Control Group #1 not really wanting to walk much. Not sure if it's injury or not. It looks like it is. I had 2 boys in a ex. large dog crate in the same room as the rest of the group and one is always trying to be the head roo, so sometimes there's fighting. It looks to me as if he may have gotten it caught in the sides of the crate when they were jumping around. They are now out of the crate and being allowed to run free in the hallway of the back of the chicken house. He was walking and it seemed he was having a bit of pain and would stop and drop. Now this could go either way...I've seen the stop and drop a few too many times to ignore it, but I am going to give him some time to find out what is truly going on.

Control Group #2....another showing signs of limping. This little one, just over 6 weeks, had problems a while back with the bigger birds jumping on her when they were doing their flying thing. I have separated the larger ones from the smaller ones and am watching. About the only good thing that happened today is I now know for certain it isn't mites or lice affecting my Dr. Suess critters. I'm going to try giving them a gamebird feed, suggested by a BYC member, as well as some BOSS and see if the added protien and oils will help. It was also said by another BYC members that it could be feather picking. I saw nothing going on like that a short while ago, but I know who to watch. She's my egg eater and has always been a problem child.

 

[kimchick621]

Well, we got the tests back this evening and my girl tested positive for Marek's. Here's my question now to all of you.

I'm moving in 4 weeks. My husband has built me a new coop that hasn't been used yet by any of my birds. I know with certainty my 3 remaining adults have not been vaccinated for Marek's, and have been exposed. I'm pretty sure that the 5 three month old chicks I have were vaccinated, but since I bought them from my local feed store a few months ago, I'm not sure I can find out for sure.

If I put all my chickens down, and start all over I can do it with out bringing Marek's to my new place. It will be a sad day. If I keep my old coop, and put the chicks who I think were vaccinated in them, and place them at one end of my acre, and then get new chicks (vaccinated) and put them in the new coop, could that mean a possibly Marek's free environment. Is there such a thing? Should I bother putting down healthy looking chickens?

What would you do?

 

[Gemski]

I might be barking up the wrong tree here!! A long shot too.... But could it be Kanker???? We were sold White doves, who had Kanker but looked healthy only to go down hill super fast in dahs some hours. Luckily we quarantine, it was heart wrenching, excessive drinking unbelievable amounts, watery poop, so so wet! Loss of appetite. We lost a hen after a week, was on treatment like the others but just didn't respond. It's also transmitted through drinking water. What the lady didn't tell us, as she got them out of a flight, is that her birds are free flying, and said they were all treated. One she said had been attacked by a hawk and suffered brain damage, tests confirmed PmV.... When I told her she told me not believe everything vets say as they lie, and that all her birds were healthy, but had been locked down due to hawk attacks!!! And then messaged me to say her giant rabbit who lived with her doves had died, but said it had got to poison!!!
This lady claims to be working with the RSPCA for over 20 years, but selling sick birds. She sold me three chicks at the same time, one of hick was a pekin, that died 3 days later, the seramas are fine and both grown now. When I informed her of the chick passing she told me not to worry, that it was nothing I'd done wrong, that 3 had died at her's the day before!!! This lady continues to sell. It infuriates me. I hate people who claim to do it for the love if the animal and not for profit selling sick animals to unsuspecting buyers. It's heart wrenching and so stressful.
I feel so bad for you.
The thought of Kanker might be a long shot, but sounds very similar to what these doves went through. Pleased to say apart from Patrick ( PMV ) sufferer and the hen, the rest made a full recovery, after quarantine to rule out more PMV infected birds, all healthy happy birds now.

 

[Gemski]

Apologies for the spelling mistakes, was having a rant!!

 

[Haunted55]

Well, we got the tests back this evening and my girl tested positive for Marek's. Here's my question now to all of you.

I'm moving in 4 weeks. My husband has built me a new coop that hasn't been used yet by any of my birds. I know with certainty my 3 remaining adults have not been vaccinated for Marek's, and have been exposed. I'm pretty sure that the 5 three month old chicks I have were vaccinated, but since I bought them from my local feed store a few months ago, I'm not sure I can find out for sure.

If I put all my chickens down, and start all over I can do it with out bringing Marek's to my new place. It will be a sad day. If I keep my old coop, and put the chicks who I think were vaccinated in them, and place them at one end of my acre, and then get new chicks (vaccinated) and put them in the new coop, could that mean a possibly Marek's free environment. Is there such a thing? Should I bother putting down healthy looking chickens?

What would you do?

Ah crap! I'm so sorry! The feed store can tell you if they were vaccinated through them, by the hatchery. Doesn't matter when you bought them, they have to keep those records for a long, long time. Speak with the manager and tell him the situation. They should be able to get that info for you quickly. I will say this...if it was from a TSC, they never pay for vaccinated birds. My local feed store allowed me to order my chicks vaccinated for Marek's. find out, but if they didn't tell you when you bought them, chances are they aren't vaccinated.

What I am doing here. I have Marek's, a mutated form of it that is a real nasty one. This Spring I ordered chicks from my local, vaccinated with the Turkey Marek's vaccine and also some from McMurray Hatcheries, that use all 3 of the available vaccines on their birds during their busy season. Right now, these two groups are inside my house, one in a 6' quick set swimming pool and the others in a huge deck box. They cannot be together, face to face, until they are 8 weeks old. It takes that long for the vaccine to work and get the resistance built up in the body. The best way to handle this is keep the birds separated from your original birds for 6 months to a year. Practise the best biosecurity you possibly can during this time slot. This way, even if it is a mutated strain of Marek's, they can build up resistance slowly during that time.

Are they going to be Marek's free if you keep your old birds? No. It's that simple. Will they be able to survive? Probably, but again, it depends on the strains you have in your current flock. Marek's vaccinated birds can still get the Marek's virus, they usually don't have the problems with it that unvaccinated birds have, like death. If the kind of Marek's virus you have in your flock now is a mutated form, it's anyone's guess what will happen. As Seminolewind said in an earlier post, "it's like fighting a ghost." I can't think of anything more apt than this statement.

I feel awful you have these decisions to make right now. It just plain sucks, no matter how you look at it. I chose to keep my birds and there is a price to this. Some days are fantastic and you almost forget there is a problem. Other days it slams you up side your head and you really find it hard to get out of bed in the morning. If I had it to do over again, would I choose something different? I don't think so....I could do that at any time honestly. All I'd have to do is cull 209 birds and wait through the Winter and start again in the Spring. So far, this hasn't been the path of choice for me. There is no hard and fast answer here. I almost want to tell you to cull now and start fresh, but this has to be your choice. You are the one who is facing this and will be haunted by whatever choice you make. Think long and hard, pray, whatever you need to do, the answer is there for you and you just have to be strong enough to accept it when you find it.

 

[Haunted55]

I might be barking up the wrong tree here!! A long shot too.... But could it be Kanker???? We were sold White doves, who had Kanker but looked healthy only to go down hill super fast in dahs some hours. Luckily we quarantine, it was heart wrenching, excessive drinking unbelievable amounts, watery poop, so so wet! Loss of appetite. We lost a hen after a week, was on treatment like the others but just didn't respond. It's also transmitted through drinking water. What the lady didn't tell us, as she got them out of a flight, is that her birds are free flying, and said they were all treated. One she said had been attacked by a hawk and suffered brain damage, tests confirmed PmV.... When I told her she told me not believe everything vets say as they lie, and that all her birds were healthy, but had been locked down due to hawk attacks!!! And then messaged me to say her giant rabbit who lived with her doves had died, but said it had got to poison!!!
This lady claims to be working with the RSPCA for over 20 years, but selling sick birds. She sold me three chicks at the same time, one of hick was a pekin, that died 3 days later, the seramas are fine and both grown now. When I informed her of the chick passing she told me not to worry, that it was nothing I'd done wrong, that 3 had died at her's the day before!!! This lady continues to sell. It infuriates me. I hate people who claim to do it for the love if the animal and not for profit selling sick animals to unsuspecting buyers. It's heart wrenching and so stressful.
I feel so bad for you.
The thought of Kanker might be a long shot, but sounds very similar to what these doves went through. Pleased to say apart from Patrick ( PMV ) sufferer and the hen, the rest made a full recovery, after quarantine to rule out more PMV infected birds, all healthy happy birds now.

I am so sorry for your troubles, but it really is a 'buyer beware' market out there. It's definately Marek's for me. Proven with necropsy, but your point is a very good one. So many times breeders will sell stock to unsuspecting people. They know they are having issues with their birds, they just choose to ignore them and chase the almighty dollar. You buy the bird, not their problem anymore, right? I've seen it too many times and wish there was a way to stop it. The only thing I can come up with is to publicise their name and what the issues were in the stock you purchased from them. There should be truth in bird selling just the same as anything else. Unfortunately, some people feel they have to get a return on what they have, even if it is a sickly mess. What is suggest to anyone who will listen is this, ask to see the parent stock in their own enviroment. If the owner balks at this, you need to ask why. Is it because they are afraid of you bringing in something? Or is it because they don't want you to see living conditions and parent stock? Go with your gut feelings. Body 'english' and how they answer your questions are going to tell you what you need to know. If you wanted to buy some of my duck or geese eggs...I would first ask you if you have any other poultry. If you answered yes you did, I would then tell you to look else where. Even if I had exactly what you wanted, I have Marek's here and it could be passed along. Simple right? Too bad, not many got the memo.