Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[seminolewind]

Quote:

thats a great chart, thanks for posting it.

I feel like I am too much a newbie to mareks - just since Oct this year and am still learning too much to feel confident about saying anything regarding your situation.

there is confliction with info .. im still trying to work out some of the info that's on this chart. like the Cytology of tumors or category of neoplastic lymphoid cell T or B something that was not mentioned on my report and reading it makes my eyes cross.

There is a lot of conflicting symptoms with Marek's. To have a bona fide Marek's positive, a pathologist needs to look at the bird's symptoms and flock history, examine the tumors, and send blood/tissue for a pcr. A pcr takes a portion of dna that's otherwise too small to test and it multiplies enough from the sample to get enough to diagnose.

My last hen was a one year old hatchery vaccinated BO, who must have been skinny under all those poofy feathers. I just found her dead one morning. No warning. I do think she was always slightly paler than her sister, but didn't think much of it. She had tumors but None in her Sciatic nerves ! Now according to some , it matches LL much more than Marek's. But the pathologist said she had to wait for the pcr to come back before she could have a diagnosis because the tumors from Marek's , LL, and 2 other viruses are very much alike.

The biggest problem in diagnosing Marek's without a necropsy is that Marek's doesn't play by the rules. The symptoms are "most likely" or "least likely". My first one was an 18 month old rooster than got paralysis one day. He must have had some leg weakness weeks before because I was led to believe he would wait for me to tuck him in.-Not!. He lived on my patio and the paralysis made it's way up to his neck. His left eye got gray. He sat on occasion with one leg forward and one back but not always. Then he lost his depth perception and couldn't connect to the food. I had him put down and cried every day all thru Christmas. The other 9 silkies were fine and lived long.

My next one was a 2 year old hen who I found with a "broken leg" and casted her and put her in a sling, She wasted, ate little, and lost her depth perception. I euthanized her. Within the next week I lost 8 six week olds , one each 5-7 days from paralysis and loss of depth perception and neck control. The first chick I thought broke her leg (?). The second one told me that there was a problem here.

Long story short,

symptoms are not the only thing to consider. You need a flock history, a necropsy, and some dna. That's the confusion about Marek's symptoms.

Now you can add to that all the illnesses your vaccinated chickens can die of because Marek's exposure alone has weakened their immune system.

 

[leedyfeathers]

I need to call my vet and ask if the two I have right now can be tested they are in full bloom of something. I just want as much absolute this is it info if its possible and I think only way is blood test.
And im treating it as Mareks anyway.

There is a lot of conflicting symptoms with Marek's.  To have a bona fide Marek's positive, a pathologist needs to look at the bird's symptoms and flock history, examine the tumors, and send blood/tissue for a pcr.  A pcr takes a portion of dna that's otherwise too small to test and it multiplies enough from the sample to get enough to diagnose.

  My last hen was a one year old hatchery vaccinated BO, who must have been skinny under all those poofy feathers.  I just found her dead one morning.  No warning.  I do think she was always slightly paler than her sister, but didn't think much of it.  She had tumors but None in her Sciatic nerves !   Now according to some , it matches LL much more than Marek's.  But the pathologist said she had to wait for the pcr to come back before she could have a diagnosis because the tumors from Marek's , LL, and 2 other viruses are very much alike.

The biggest problem in diagnosing Marek's without a necropsy is that Marek's doesn't play by the rules.  The symptoms are "most likely" or "least likely".  My first one was an 18 month old rooster than got paralysis one day.  He must have had some leg weakness weeks before because I was led to believe he would wait for me to tuck him in.-Not!.  He lived on my patio and the paralysis made it's way up to his neck.  His left eye got gray.  He sat on occasion with one leg forward and one back but not always.  Then he lost his depth perception and couldn't connect to the food.  I had him put down and cried every day all thru Christmas.   The other 9 silkies were fine and lived long.

My next one was a 2 year old hen who I found with a "broken leg" and casted her and put her in a sling, She wasted, ate little, and lost her depth perception.  I euthanized her.  Within the next week I lost 8 six week olds , one each 5-7 days from paralysis and loss of depth perception and neck control.  The first chick I thought broke her leg (?).  The second one told me that there was a problem here.

Long story short,  symptoms are not the only thing to consider.  You need a flock history, a necropsy, and some dna.  That's the confusion about Marek's symptoms.

Now you can add to that all the illnesses your vaccinated chickens can die of because Marek's exposure alone has weakened their immune system. 

That I completely understand. I dont think he got the pcp done because the narcolepsy and other test done didnt show all the symptoms for Marek's. I know they didnt do blood test because he said it wouldn't matter because of her age. So ill get it done soon.

 

[seminolewind]

Yea, I think Nambroth and I have sortof theorized that if there are no tumors, they will probably not test accurate. We both had several that tested negative and were exposed and unvaccinated but may have died from something else.

So we think we have 2 groups. One that gets tumors and dies from the symptoms or not but does have the tumors. The other group is those who die from common bacteria they should be resistant to. Because Marek's actually suppresses the immune system so it can make more virus.

 

[ochochicas]

Yea, I think Nambroth and I have sortof theorized that if there are no tumors, they will probably not test accurate. We both had several that tested negative and were exposed and unvaccinated but may have died from something else.

So we think we have 2 groups. One that gets tumors and dies from the symptoms or not but does have the tumors. The other group is those who die from common bacteria they should be resistant to. Because Marek's actually suppresses the immune system so it can make more virus.

It sounds like a good theory. The disease shows up in so many different forms.

I have another sick hen...the last sister to the two older pullets that died already. She seems to just have respiratory symptoms so I'm treating her for that. She ate better today, so I'll stay hopeful for now!

On a better note, I had a sick pullet that had an impacted crop. Of course this could also be Marek's if the nerve controlling the gizzard is affected (the crop will not empty). I treated the impacted crop for a week and it is now emptying on its own. The pullet is eating better and is starting to gain weight back. She had a bit of trouble being reintroduced into the flock. Tonight I saw her go over and peck one of her sisters on the head. She's definitely doing better!

 

[seminolewind]

MUST READ

I ordered Marek's vaccine thru J**ff**s in February. I paid roughly $43.00 for the vaccine, the cooler, a pack of ice, and 1 day shipping. I got it.
I order the same order on April 1 and the amount it costs is the same, so I pay roughly the same thing. NOW they send me this additional bill that says "Over-size ground shipping" and cost $17.00 MORE!!!!!!. I email them and sent them this reply:

**********************************************
"Yes cancel the order. I bought this vaccine in February and the total came to $42-43. It's not oversized and it does not go by ground. $17.00 on top of $18+ is robbery"

Cancel the Order
Karen Fletcher

Backyardchickens.com
****************************************************

Are they crazy????? They can live without my business if they think they can make up a reason to add $35.00 to my order for vaccine and cooler.

 

[mightymax]

That must be SOME cooler they're shipping it in...lol !!! Since you ordered it on 1st, maybe that's their version of a delayed April Fool's Day joke. Not that I find it funny in the least, mind you.

-kim-

 

[lalaland]

the only thing I can think of is that shipping costs increase dramatically in warmer months when shipping items that have to be cooled . Chocolate, for example - it is both a better cooler, more packaging, and an more expensive shipper that gets it there more directly versus a less expensive shipper where it goes to a hub and gets sorted, sits, etc. And usually they use the calendar - shipping after a certain date = warm weather costs. Maybe the vaccine is the same thing. Or maybe it is a ripoff

will be interesting to see what response you get if any.

 

[ochochicas]

My vaccine was ordered from Strombergs. Took almost 2 weeks to get it. They didn't ship it for over a week, and the "overnight shipping" turned into two days since they didn't take it to the parcel service until the evening and it didn't even go out until the following morning. Total was $30. I wasn't happy with the service, but the price was right.

 

[leedyfeathers]

MUST READ

I ordered Marek's vaccine thru J**ff**s in February. I paid roughly $43.00 for the vaccine, the cooler, a pack of ice, and 1 day shipping. I got it.
I order the same order on April 1 and the amount it costs is the same, so I pay roughly the same thing. NOW they send me this additional bill that says "Over-size ground shipping" and cost $17.00 MORE!!!!!!. I email them and sent them this reply:

**********************************************
"Yes cancel the order. I bought this vaccine in February and the total came to $42-43. It's not oversized and it does not go by ground. $17.00 on top of $18+ is robbery"

Cancel the Order
Karen Fletcher

Backyardchickens.com
****************************************************

Are they crazy????? They can live without my business if they think they can make up a reason to add $35.00 to my order for vaccine and cooler.

was this a vaccine for the new chicks or are you giving a new one that's come out that can be used on older birds?? I know they said was working on a new vaccine but I don't know how old that info is.

 

[seminolewind]

That must be SOME cooler they're shipping it in...lol !!! Since you ordered it on 1st, maybe that's their version of a delayed April Fool's Day joke. Not that I find it funny in the least, mind you.

-kim-

LOL. Robbery!!!! I have a purchase previous to this in February and it did not have an oversized charge on it. At least I sent them a snooty letter back.