Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[ochochicas]

BigKitty - I agree with the other posts. You did everything you could for your hen, but she was sick and wasn't going to make it. Sorry for your loss!

Has anyone had a Marek's bird that coughs? I have a 18 week old pullet that coughs all the time, but especially when she hears my voice. I'm not sure why sound triggers the coughing,but it is worse when I talk. We had her in the house, and it did not get better. She's been treated with safeguard with slight improvement. I'd say this has been going on for about 3 weeks now. Other than the coughing, she acts and eats normally. The cough is not getting better or worse, just stays the same. She was raised by a broody and is not vaccinated.

 

[fairie]

Thank you for the words of advice ochochicas there is really no other solution that I can see. She was laying on her back again yesterday.

I am not sure what to do with the other 2 except let them grow and see what happens. They look and act fine, so far. Since they are from the same brood I would imagine that they will be okay. I hope.

The rest of my chickens are 2 years old and they are all healthy.

We live on an organic farm in Germany. Our farmer get's chickens every 2 years. He get's them when they are ready to lay, I would imagine that they are all vaccinated. But I dont know. When I asked the farmer he had no idea what Marek's was/is.

There are "free" chickens on the farm they never go back in the barn and are allowed to nest and brood where ever they want. They are not controlled (except by foxes) . This is where our young chickens came from. Maybe Marek's has been on the farm before, or maybe the chicken got it from a wild bird who knows.

 

[Akrnaf2]

Thank you for the words of advice ochochicas ......maybe the chicken got it from a wild bird who knows.

The Marek virus infect only chickens it doesn't affect any other bird species.

 

[fairie]

Then the disease must be on the farm and our farmer has just never realized it was Marek's.

 

[seminolewind]

Back to add another ray of sunshine through the dark cloud that is Marek;s.....

I left my two Marek's girls out with the flock all day yesterday (no cage) and they did great!
Hoppity realised that if she hung around with Harry he would protect her from Henry's advances and also from being bullied by the little oiks (young leghorns have such an attitude!).
Hope (I have eventually given her a name and it couldn't be more appropriate) seemed more confident and integrated with the older ladies, and it was wonderful to see her dust bathing and sunbathing with them.... in fact several times I mistook her for her sister, she was so relaxed and well integrated.

Anyway, when I went up to put them away, I had a few chores to do first and Hope traipsed around the yard after me whilst I did them, like she was my shadow. She is walking so well there is just a hint of lameness and a slightly squiffy tail to indicate that she is not normal. I can't believe that in January she was so bad, lying on her side with her legs stuck out that I had twice set myself/her a DEAD line to cull, but just wasn't quite ready to give up on her. I'm getting so much pleasure from her now both as a pet, as well as 4 eggs a week, I'm SO, VERY, VERY pleased I hesitated.
Hoppity on the other hand was waiting in the hen house for me to open the palace (infirmary) gates and hand her in before serving supper ....she was "not amused" at having to mix with the peasants and her prince charming (Harry), was insufferably attending to other ladies! Apparently you just can't get the staff these days!!

We have had sensational weather for 2 weeks now and I'm dreading it coming to an end (this weekend) because these girls have benefitted so much from it.

I was talking to a local breeder last night and he says that they are usually OK here for Mareks once they make it past 18 weeks. I will be so relieved if that is the case.

The chicks are 2 weeks old and growing fast.... just another 16 to go! Yesterday they went into the cage that the Marek's girls have been in through the day, but on new ground. They are in the hen house with the others overnight so the cage exposure is irrelevant in my opinion since they've already probably had maximum contact with the virus at night.

I don't mean to be critical and I know this will be very contentious, but I just want to throw it out there for some consideration....I appreciate why you throw a "cocktail" of chemicals at your birds the moment they start looking sick, but is it possible that the physical act of giving them these treatments stresses them as well as the chemicals themselves, stressing their digestive system. I'm sure you are right that my strain of Marek's is much less virulent, but as another poster said, keeping hens happy and stress free is a key factor. I'm definitely seeing this with mine. I haven't wormed or given antibiotics or any other drug (just a bit of turmeric and black pepper and garlic occasionally in their feed and ACV daily in their water) and more recently fermented feed (actually I think I started that around January time which is when things started to improve but to be honest they were eating more soaked mixed corn than anything else, as that is what they wanted and I was just happy for them to eat anything)

Anyway, whilst it has been nerve wracking at times, I'm finding both with my poultry keeping and my bee keeping, that not intervening but just providing care and support, seems to be more successful than treatment. This is only my experience in my situation and perhaps my house of card will come down on my head in the near future.... I do half expect it to.... but at the moment (and I have a lot more experience with beekeeping than poultry) I am more confident to let mother nature take care of things than to intervene. I accept that there will be fatalities but those of you who use chemicals also have those. I'm not against drugs per se, but I do think that we can get drawn into becoming too dependent on them and that they become our first resort when things go wrong.

No you don't sound critical at all. The cocktail is something I started doing after several things had happened. Last year after a few necropsies , I found that they had died from bacteria or cocci that they should have had resistance to. I did a lot of reading to find that the first problem with Marek's is tumors and where they attack.

The second problem is that exposed chickens who do not die of Marek's, including vaccinated ones still get immunosuppression from the virus. Meaning that if they don't die from Marek's they are very vulnerable to opportunistic bacteria and cocci for life due to the way Marek's works within the antibody creating cells.

Sub clinical diseases have gotten very popular these past years due to Marek's exposures and also the reduction of the automatic antibiotics that production chickens used to get and that's world wide.

Subclinical is when an ailment affects the chicken in a low chronic way where a chicken would just continue to live and not be very robust, not lay lots of eggs, and always on the thin side even tho they are wormed and eat well.

So my treatment has been the cocktail, if a Marek's exposed bird is not dying by tumors, just thin or not laying well, they get the cocktail. Last ditch effort.

One of the most opportunistically affected areas with mine has been the small intestine and called enteritis. This can often times be unsymptomatic until it's too late.

1 in 4 of my necropsied birds that were 1-6 years old died of Marek's tumors. The rest so far has died of what I call bacteria or cocci that should not have been a problem. One roo I had got so bad that he got pox so bad it was killing him, and one bumblefoot after another, and he was so thin I could not keep cutting into his feet and he was euthanized.

Aside from that, the cocktail to me is a new attempt to save those that are not dying from tumors. How would I know? I don't. But it's worth a try.

Sorry this is long, but it's worth discussing.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
I think she meant that wild birds can carry it in dander to your property, as well as the wind.

 

[Corydg]

I just wrote this to lovely Karen at catdance silkie farms and want to share with my fellow washitonians so hopefully you don't have to experience the same heart break I have. I am veterinarian (doctor of veterinary medicine) who lives in Battle Ground WA, is fairly new to chickens (not including the years of coarses in chicken husbandry, diseases, etc.)

My latest issue is that I'm 99% sure I have Mareks in my flock. 4 out of 18 were suffering enough to euthanize over the last 2 weeks (non-responsive crop stasis in one, progressive leg paralysis in one, one lethargic and wouldn't thrive,and now one that is blind, and another that has a crooked neck...not wry neck) 4 of these were not vaccinated for Mareks and under 6 weeks of age while the other 4 mths old sizzles and Silkies are doing great, only 2 were vaccinated. I've been traumatized and despite my pain and the poor birds morbidity, I hope I can help convince others to make sure you acquire vaccinated chicks. I was naive and took advice that was incorrect whileI should've been seeking my colleagues advice all along.

I've spoken with 4 of the top poultry vets in the U.S. and Dr. Crestor at wsu in puyallup.
From now on before introducing any more birds they must've been vaccinated from a reputable Mareks vaccine within 24 hrs of hatch. My options are to hatch my own via incubator and vaccinate within 24 hrs (I don't have an incubator yet...not sure if I want one), let my own birds breed and raise their own...either vaccinate or let nature take its coarse with the strong ones building up their immunity, or get ones from a breeder that routinely vaccinates for Mareks with a reputable vaccine within 24 hrs.

I would very much love to have a couple more lavender silkies and bantam Americaunas but must be patient and wise to find or create only vaccinated chicks.

Best wishes to all the chicken peeps and learn from my experience please.

Thank you
Sincerely,
Dr. Cory Gadwood

 

[JeanR]

Not a VET! However, long years of experience, isolated farm, long before computers and internet, then longtime search and research-- lots of misinformation, lots of guesses, and lots of good information, to convince one that while much is known about Marek's, much is still to be discovered. Experience with RECORDS, has several local Vets sending questions to me (might help, might NOT.) We have no local hatcheries any more (and before Marek's was a problem) but Feed Stores carry them, and it soon will be question time--(a month or 2 for cockerels--4-5 months, just before first laying for pullets is normal, but of course can vary.) Even if you can order vaccinated chicks, if they arrive with the non vaccinated--they may be exposed already and cannot have the 2 weeks to develop immunity.

Had chickens for YEARS, with NO MAREK's or anything similar. It first arrived with lovely birds from friend in Alabama. Hen went down on one leg shortly after arrival--then wing on same side, then DOWN and died in several more days??????no idea what it was. Spoke with the breeder, who was sorry--he was breeding for "immunity to Marek's! Of course it was classical symptom--now, easily spotted!!!!!

Breeding for immunity IS possible with most breeds of poultry. TAKES YEARS--AND after a long time with birds not showing any symptoms, how do you really know if all your birds are immune?? FEW Vets do the blood work. ANd some infected birds do recover AND ARE CARRIERS OF THE VIRUS for the rest of their lives--and can carry infection to any birds hatched or acquired later-=-years later. Marek's is a LONG LIVED VIRUS. How long? We do not really know!! The best philosophy is "ONCE YOU HAVE IT, YOU CAN ALWAYS HAVE IT!!!!!

After not having birds with symtoms, for several years, sold some really nice birds, shipped, AND a month or so later, the buyer wrote to say that they were sure that one pullet was going down with MAREK'S . How could I have been so fortunate to have sold the birds to a family that vaccinated all their birds.

WHile I had read and learned (our local Vets do not really do chickens , but good Vet friend did send a bird that I had purchased, had been vaccinated, quarantined after arrival here, but died 10 days after receiving him, for necropsy. It was Marek's--so we do know that while vaccination is IMPORTANT, it may not be 100% and stress can break the immunity--same as vaccines for people, With this experience--NEXT HATCH, I started vaccinating and have for 14 years, every chick within or closest possible, to 24 hours of hatch. Have learned to schedule hens to hatch for same day , to save vaccine as it does not keep after mixing! That infected pullet that I had sold? I hatched, vaccinated, raised the same variety bantams and later sent the family, not just one, but TWO pullets as replacement. Marek's is not carried in the eggs and recovered birds can produce lovely fertile eggs. Exposure is after hatch!

Since it may take 2 weeks for a vaccinated chick to develop immunity, it is with faith that chicks are started in their own "isolated" pens, and hope that they are in no way exposed to the virus (which can still be anyplace former infected chickens have lived --and their own mothering hen, even a dear old one--"could have some dander with the virus??????) 2 weeks!

It is all we can do--but DO IT. And now, I will not even purchase a vaccinated bird. Time to let TIME kill the virus that may still be lurking on my premises. AND the virus is continually mutating--is the vaccine broad spectrum for present and newest forms? We must do what we can do--worth the efforts, of course, my bantams are part of the family farm--and deserve no less than my children did!!

You CANNOT give a bird Marek's by vaccinating. The vaccine is not made from Marek's Disease!! It is made from aTurkey Herpes Virus, which causes chickens to DEVELOP an immunity to MAREK's. May sound strange, but that's the way it is!

GOOD LUCK

And of those who deny Marek's in many ways, I respect your point of view--I live by my long time experiences--and I well know that the book is not closed on Marek's--lots yet to learn.....

 

[LuvnMyChix]

. Marek's is not carried in the eggs and recovered birds can produce lovely fertile eggs. Exposure is after hatch!

Although the statement "Exposure is after hatch" is correct, as well as it's not carried IN the eggs...but the skin cells can be ON the eggs you hatch, therefore exposing newborn chicks to the virus.

 

[ochochicas]

I just wrote this to lovely Karen at catdance silkie farms and want to share with my fellow washitonians so hopefully you don't have to experience the same heart break I have. I am veterinarian (doctor of veterinary medicine) who lives in Battle Ground WA, is fairly new to chickens (not including the years of coarses in chicken husbandry, diseases, etc.)

My latest issue is that I'm 99% sure I have Mareks in my flock. 4 out of 18 were suffering enough to euthanize over the last 2 weeks (non-responsive crop stasis in one, progressive leg paralysis in one, one lethargic and wouldn't thrive,and now one that is blind, and another that has a crooked neck...not wry neck) 4 of these were not vaccinated for Mareks and under 6 weeks of age while the other 4 mths old sizzles and Silkies are doing great, only 2 were vaccinated. I've been traumatized and despite my pain and the poor birds morbidity, I hope I can help convince others to make sure you acquire vaccinated chicks. I was naive and took advice that was incorrect whileI should've been seeking my colleagues advice all along.

I've spoken with 4 of the top poultry vets in the U.S. and Dr. Crestor at wsu in puyallup.
From now on before introducing any more birds they must've been vaccinated from a reputable Mareks vaccine within 24 hrs of hatch. My options are to hatch my own via incubator and vaccinate within 24 hrs (I don't have an incubator yet...not sure if I want one), let my own birds breed and raise their own...either vaccinate or let nature take its coarse with the strong ones building up their immunity, or get ones from a breeder that routinely vaccinates for Mareks with a reputable vaccine within 24 hrs.

I would very much love to have a couple more lavender silkies and bantam Americaunas but must be patient and wise to find or create only vaccinated chicks.

Best wishes to all the chicken peeps and learn from my experience please.

Thank you
Sincerely,
Dr. Cory Gadwood

Welcome to our thread. I'm sorry you had to come here to share your story about Marek's. For what its worth, the state vet at WADDL is very good and can answer your concerns about the virus and what it means to your flock in the future. It sounds like you have already spoken with her. She will likely tell you that raising chicks with a broody in a flock with Marek's will result in the chicks contracting and dying from Marek's. From what I understand, silkies are especially susceptible to Mareks.

My flock came down with Marek's last year. I lost 100% of the pullets that were raised by a broody (the last one died a couple of weeks ago at 8 months of age). In December I introduced a dozen 5 week old chicks that were hatched in an incubator. They are not vaccinated. So far I only have 5 of the 12 left. Three seem to be resistant, two are sick but stable, and the others died from Marek's. Personally I don't recommend letting nature take its course and hoping for resistance. Some of the more common hatchery breeds do seem to have resistance. My Australorp chicks are totally healthy. The more exotic breeds don't seem to do as well. I lost all my Maran's chicks, as well as the faverolles and the majority of the Ameraucanas. It is a horrible way to see them go.

It is a personal decision,but I'm going to vaccinate and spare my chicks the pain and suffering. I built my coop with a concrete floor and raccoon proof latches to protect the flock from predators; why wouldn't I take the same precautions to protect them from a deadly virus that is in my back yard?