Not an Emergency...Marek's in the Flock

[lalaland]

She is the offspring of a sulmtaler hen and a rooster of undetermined breed. This woman was hatching eggs to order out of hard to obtain breeds, she traded eggs wtih some byc'ers. Only hatched from these eggs. but got over enthusiastic and overwhelmed and ended up with tons of hatches and no way to separate them apparently. so everyone got an interesting mix and definitely not what they expected. She is kind of well known for this disaster around this neck of the woods. took me forever to id her mother as a sulmtaler since I had never heard of or seen that breed.

So while I don't know what the rooster was - never could id his breed - but most likely he wasn't hatchery unless an egg trader slipped up.

This morning, I went out thinking I would cull her and there she was, foraging away and then gleefully beaking a frog. So not ready to go yet. Sulmtalers are heavily feathered so it is hard to see the belly area, but she definitely wasn't in penguin stance. I can't think the epsom salt bath would have improved her that much, but for now it isn't necessary to cull. yet.

hope everyone has a great weekend with happy and healthy chickens!

 

[seminolewind]

Nambroth has a very good point about EYP and Marek's. I do think that Marek's makes them more vulnerable to that. I have read that it's real easy for layers to get e.coli infection traveling up to their ovary, then causing EYP. I read it's due to the poop chute/egg chute flap getting floppy and not closing all the way due to egg stretching it out over time .

I wish this eyp symptoms were early enough to treat for the ovary infection, but I think by the time we see symptoms, it's too late. But next time I"ll try anyway. Nothing to lose.

My hatched silkies I vaccinated are 10 weeks old now. Fingers crossed. I'm not sure if you remember that one silkie chick I had that I was tube feeding for weeks. She is doing great running around and acting normal just like every one else.

She was the 2nd chicken that Casportpony guided me thru tube feeding .

 

[lalaland]

seminole wind, thats great news about the silkie chick! hooray!

 

[spoiledgachix]

Hello I am new to this forum (joined last night) and posted a question last night and was told I should go on here and ask for advice. I am also new to having chickens. It has been a very heart wrenching ordeal for me so far. I got 4 baby chicks last year which I thought where vaccinated form a local small breeder (stated on website) and then got a rooster shortly there after. (same person.) We did everything right. I cleaned the coop everyday, organic food, deworming, treats, free ranging etc. These guys where my babies. Then it all changed. I notice the rooster was very aggressive and with only 4 hens he was "over breeding" so I gave him back to breeder but before that my RIR was not looking good and I knew something was not right. Shortly after she pasted away. I took her to our State Poultry lab for a necropsy done and she had a ton of tumors and it was Ovarian Cancer which was unusual for such a young chicken (about 1 yr old) then my Amauracauna started showing signs of not being well and passed I also did necrop on her and it was Mareks!! The breeder said no it wasn't and many things can look like Mareks so what did I know but I should of know the state poultry lab would know. Then my Brahma goes broody and the breeder gave me eggs to hatch ( I know not a smart idea) and then my Frizzle, who was pretty much by herself while brahma was laying on eggs) (she and Brahma are my favorite) goes sick and dies quickly ( I took last 2 birds that died to vets but they where not much help) and I got the prelim report and also states Mareks. I am sick and losing my favorite frizzle has taken a toll on my. I still cry for that one.

Now my dilemma is the poultry lab has told me to depopulate (and other sources) what I have and start over with only vaccinated chicks. I am not sure I can do that to these little guys but I also don't want to put them through the disease. I know stress brings it on and we have had some stressful situations around here with all these loses in a small flock. I just can't see putting my Brahma down, she seems to be healthy and going through all this has done well. All she has ever wanted to do was be a mommy (she goes broody alot) and has done a great job so far. I want to be logical about this not emotional but that is hard. What would you do in my situation? I was thinking if culling is what I need to do (they where around my frizzle in the coop shortly after they where born) I know...I am learning. But she showed no signs at the time. Can I keep Brahma and get vaccinated chicks and bring her and chicks inside for awhile and let here raise them? Can I switch them like that or what?

Sorry for the long article but so much has gone on. I don't want to give up on chickens They are so much fun to have! I really miss my girls.

Thanks

 

[saltandpepper2]

Hello I am new to this forum (joined last night) and posted a question last night and was told I should go on here and ask for advice. I am also new to having chickens. It has been a very heart wrenching ordeal for me so far. I got 4 baby chicks last year which I thought  where vaccinated form a local small breeder (stated on website) and then got a rooster shortly there after. (same person.) We did everything right. I cleaned the coop everyday, organic food, deworming, treats, free ranging etc. These guys where my babies. Then it all changed. I notice the rooster was very aggressive and with only 4 hens he was "over breeding" so I gave him back to breeder but before that my RIR was not looking good and I knew something was not right. Shortly after she pasted away. I took her to our State Poultry lab for a necropsy done and she had a ton of tumors and it was Ovarian Cancer which was unusual for such a young chicken (about 1 yr old) then my Amauracauna started showing signs of not being well and passed I also did  necrop on her and it was Mareks!! The breeder said no it wasn't and many things can look like Mareks so what did I know but I should of know the state poultry lab would know. Then my Brahma goes broody and the breeder gave me eggs to hatch ( I know not a smart idea) and then my Frizzle,  who was pretty much by herself while brahma was laying on eggs)  (she and Brahma are my favorite) goes sick and dies quickly ( I took last 2 birds that died to vets but they where not much help) and I got the prelim report and also states Mareks. I am sick and losing my favorite frizzle has taken a toll on my. I still cry for that one. 

Now my dilemma is the poultry lab has told me to depopulate (and other sources) what I have and start over with only vaccinated chicks. I am not sure I can do that to these little guys but I also don't want to put them through the disease. I know stress brings it on and we have had some stressful situations around here with all these loses in a small flock. I just can't see putting my Brahma down, she seems to be healthy and going through all this has done well. All she has ever wanted to do was be a mommy (she goes broody alot) and has done a great job so far. I want to be logical about this not emotional but that is hard. What would you do in my situation? I was thinking if culling is what I need to do (they where around my frizzle in the coop shortly after they where born) I know...I am learning. But she showed no signs at the time. Can I keep Brahma and get vaccinated chicks and bring her and chicks inside for awhile and let here raise them? Can I switch them like that or what?

Sorry for the long article but so much has gone on. I don't want to give up on chickens They are so much fun to have! I really miss my girls.

Thanks

I'm so sorry for your losses. It sounds a lot like what happened to me and my flock. Honestly I would not be able to cull my birds, and even though it's hard, I take pride in the birds that have survived. None of my birds are vaccinated, and that means I lose some, but the ones that I don't are even that more special. You can definitely get vaccinated chicks, and keep them inside, uncontaminated until past 3 weeks, and this might help lessen your mortality rate, but I'm too much of a softy to cull the existing birds.

 

[spoiledgachix]

I know. That is my problem. The State poultry lab suggested I cull but their is no attachment with them. I also know I probably could give the chicks back to the breeder but not sure that is responsible since these guys have already been exposed. I keep going back and forth with this and it's making me sick!! I am not good at making decisions as it is!!

If I get vaccinated chicks and keep them inside for 3 weeks do I bring Brahma in with them or do I wait? If so how long? I just can't take her out. She is my sweetie. I do have a strong attachment to her.

 

[ochochicas]

Now my dilemma is the poultry lab has told me to depopulate (and other sources) what I have and start over with only vaccinated chicks. I am not sure I can do that to these little guys but I also don't want to put them through the disease. I know stress brings it on and we have had some stressful situations around here with all these loses in a small flock. I just can't see putting my Brahma down, she seems to be healthy and going through all this has done well. All she has ever wanted to do was be a mommy (she goes broody alot) and has done a great job so far. I want to be logical about this not emotional but that is hard. What would you do in my situation? I was thinking if culling is what I need to do (they where around my frizzle in the coop shortly after they where born) I know...I am learning. But she showed no signs at the time. Can I keep Brahma and get vaccinated chicks and bring her and chicks inside for awhile and let here raise them? Can I switch them like that or what?

Sorry you have Marek's and had to join the thread, but happy you are here to get advice.

I was in the exact same place as you earlier this year. I've lost almost 20 birds since January to Marek's. I'm currently still raising chicks that I hope will be able to survive here. The strain of marek's I have is extremely aggressive.

Depopulating your flock will not do you any good. The virus is in your coop, your equipment, your ground, and probably the house and car as well. Your Brahma may be resistant, but she may be a carrier. The only way to know if she is a carrier is to have her tested,but the state lab will probably charge you over $100 for the test (depending where you are).

My state lab does not recommend raising chicks with a broody hen that has been exposed to Marek's. As you know, it takes 3 weeks for chicks to develop good immunity after being vaccinated. If you put the chicks with the hen before they have immunity they will probably get Marek's. That said. I just put chicks under my broody hen. They hatched from eggs from my only two surviving pullets. The pullets are my australorps that, by some miracle, seem to be resistant to Marek's and have not died. My broody and the chicks are isolated from the other hens. I'm crossing my fingers that (a) the chicks are naturally resistant since their moms were, and (b) the broody hen is not a carrier of Marek's. I did vaccinate the chicks when they were a few hours old. I will add my results to my vaccine experiment.

You have a couple of options as far as your broody. You can get chicks from a breeder that has resistant stock. You can hatch a different species like peafowl or turkeys. You can't really put older chicks under a broody. If you do get new vaccinated chicks, they need to be isolated from Marek's infected materials for 3 weeks or more. This includes bedding, your clothing, cages, feed, etc.

Don't give up! You can find a solution.

 

[spoiledgachix]

Wow so sorry you lost almost 20 birds. This is really a horrible disease for birds. I thought I was doing the right thing by getting them locally since I thought shipping baby chicks and such a young age was so stressful. But I was told by the Dept of Ag in my county that most small back yard breeders don't vaccinate and I did think they where. Live and learn.

I just got an email from our State poultry lab that did the Necropsy on my birds and he again told me to depopulate since I have such a small flock of only 6 and the chances of some getting it is probably high. I can understand that. I can also see one of the baby's I have doesn't seem to be doing real well. Is off in a corner with eyes closed a lot. Not really foraging with the others. My first batch I got from this breeder I got 4 and (didn't have rooster yet) and one died (she replaced) and acted the same way. Oh brother. So if this one doesn't make it I will be down to 5 so odds go up.

I know what I should do and that is to humanely put them down (State lab will do for free) and not put chickens in my yard for a couple of months and only get vaccinated. Yours you hatched where vaccinated. These are not. I never should of let my broody hatch these eggs and I am surprised this breeder let me do it. She has more experience then I do but I also should of thought this through. I am learning but learning the hard way. I can't take her baby's away and she will be all by herself for a couple of months. That will stress her out and ....Marek's may rear it's ugly head again???? who knows. I just don't have the heart to put my Brahma down..

Funny about Australops, I have one also (2 weeks old) and she is the strongest of the group and so funny! Maybe I should keep her and Brahma and then she won't be alone and I could bring the vaccinated chicks out after 2 months maybe??? I keep hoping for a solution.

 

[saltandpepper2]

Wow so sorry you lost almost 20 birds. This is really a horrible disease for birds. I thought I was doing the right thing by getting them locally since I thought shipping baby chicks and such a young age was so stressful. But I was told by the Dept of Ag in my county that most small back yard breeders don't vaccinate and I did think they where. Live and learn.

I just got an email from our State poultry lab that did the Necropsy on my birds and he again told me to depopulate since I have such a small flock of only 6 and the chances of some getting it is probably high. I can understand that. I can also see one of the baby's I have doesn't seem to be doing real well. Is off in a corner with eyes closed a lot. Not really foraging with the others. My first batch I got from this breeder I got 4 and (didn't have rooster yet) and one died (she replaced) and acted the same way. Oh brother. So if this one doesn't make it I will be down to 5 so odds go up. 

I know what I should do and that is to humanely put them down (State lab will do for free) and not put chickens in my yard for a couple of months and only get vaccinated. Yours you hatched where vaccinated. These are not. I never should of let my broody hatch these eggs and I am surprised this breeder let me do it. She has more experience then I do but I also should of thought this through. I am learning but learning the hard way. I can't take her baby's away and she will be all by herself for a couple of months. That will stress her out and ....Marek's may rear it's ugly head again???? who knows. I just don't have the heart to put my Brahma down..

Funny about Australops, I have one also (2 weeks old) and she is the strongest of the group and so funny! Maybe I should keep her and Brahma and then she won't be alone and I could bring the vaccinated chicks out after 2  months maybe??? I keep hoping for a solution. 

I wouldn't put down any birds if they're not suffering. The fact is, unfortunately, you have marked in your flock, and it's not going to leave. If you get vaccinated chicks, keep them completely quarantined for a minimum of 3 weeks, more is better. As for the chicks you hatched, let your brahma raise the chicks, if they die, they do, if not, you have more resistant birds. Also, for the chicks that will be vaccinated, once introduced to the marks infected area, they become carriers, but most won't show symptoms.

 

[ochochicas]

I agree 100% with everything saltandpepper said. If the chicks are not sick, don't put them down. Depopulating isn't going to work for you. The virus can live for years in the environment. You could completely clean your coop and wait for two years, get new chicks and they could still become sick.

Not to dash your hopes, but often times my "strongest and biggest chicks" are the first ones to die from Mareks. I had a huge, dominant cockerel that was my first cockerel to die. The smaller, timid one lived the longest. He actually got to breed with the hens and died at 6 months old. I had 2 pullets that were raised over the winter by a broody. One pullet was small and sickly (coughing all the time). Her sister was twice as big as she was. One day she got sick and died two days later. Little sister recovered and is now laying eggs.

If you have chicks that get sick, cull them before they are suffering. I'm not sure why your state vet is trying to convince you to cull everyone now.

I buy my own vaccine and vaccinate my chicks. You can buy vaccinated chicks from a hatchery. That might be the best option in your case if you don't mind getting hatchery birds. It sounds liken maybe one of the limited breeders in your area is selling birds from a Marek's infected flock.

What I do with my chicks is vaccinate at 1 day old. They spend the next 3 weeks in the back bathroom where they are not exposed to any other birds or shared equipment. They have their own feeders, bedding, etc. I feed them first in the morning after I shower and change my clothes. Then I go out and take care of the other birds in order of age. One month old pullets get fed next, followed by the adults in the coop. I know my house is infected with Marek's since I had 2 sick birds living inside for a month before sending them in for necropsy. I realize my situation isn't ideal for the birds, but I'm doing the best I can.

When the chicks are 4 weeks old, they are vaccinated a second time (it is part of my vaccine experiment). They are moved into the living room where they are handled more and the "biosecurity" is reduced quite a bit. They still have their own brooder, feeder, bedding and food. My objective is to slowly introduce them to small amounts of the virus so their immune systems can become stronger before they go into the flock.

At 6 weeks they start going into an outdoor chicken tractor during the day. It is in a part of the yard where the other birds don't normally go, so I'm pretty confident they are not getting huge doses of the virus. Over the next two weeks the tractor is moved so that it is closer to the main coop and all the other birds. At 8 weeks they are allowed to free range for a small period of time with the flock. By 10 weeks they are (hopefully) fully integrated with the flock and have had 10 weeks to build immunity to Marek's.

Currently I am hatching every 4 weeks. It is very labor intensive to have all these chicks in the house plus two tractors outside. I'm doing one more hatch and then I'll take a break until fall. I will have five batches of chicks that have been vaccinated, and, and two batches that were not vaccinated (only 3 pullets left total since all the others have died).

The other thing you can do is get older birds. Last year I got more than a dozen adults and none of them died. By the time they are a year old they should already have natural immunity to the virus. Don't cull your babies though...give them a chance!