Not Sure What's Goin on with My Hen

[Chickmate]

I thought I'd add a few picures of Oprah and her sister Whoopie. I named her Oprah because she was the fat one and Whoopie had a kind of scrawny neck from plucking her own feathers. Now it's reversed and Oprah is the scrawny one.

This is Whoopie yesterday.


This is Whoopie in the foreground and Oprah in the back.

Whoopie in front, Oprah in back. The EE is also molting.


This is my mini FF operation! I did have the inside container suspended on the metal rods but realized I could just set in in the bigger container so don't use the rods anymore.


This is my 'house chicken' Merlin out to play. He loves to tear up cereal boxes and phone books.

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:
Most likely. Room temp should be fine. You might ferment some BOSS in it...has a lot of good fats she needs and she will like it.

No, I don't think a hard molt is the problem with your bird. I also don't think bathing is going to help. You live in a cold state, so I'm sure someone you know burns with wood. I would scavenge some wood ashes...truly it will kill anything that is adult and living there but won't be harsh for her. The NuStock is also important, so if you can get that in and put it on feet and around the vent, this will help as well as it will kill off any eggs deposited there.

I truly think she will do better if left out with the flock unless they are picking out her feathers or some such. She will grow feathers faster if she is out in colder temps...it triggers the body to get those protective feathers growing. Sort of like inside dogs won't grow a winter coat because they are in a heated environment. It may seem like she would freeze but she will huddle next to her flock mates on the roost and she will keep warm enough. You might try it and see how it goes.

 

[Chickmate]

Oprah is just picking at the FF now, not diving into it like she did in the beginning. She pecks around at it a bit before I take her out in the morning, but while she's out she free ranges with the flock and comes in with a full crop at night. Per Bee's suggestion I made some BOSS suet and she has been spending a good amount of time eating that today. I also cracked open a pumpkin but they are all ignoring it. Thankfully the weather is sunny and mild and will be for the next week, but so cold at night I just can't bring myself to leave her out in the coop. She's still so skinny and very few feathers, even snuggled up between flockmates I'm afraid it would be too much for her. The night before last she tried to jump about a foot up on the ladder to climb up to one of the poop boards to roost and she fell back down, bumping her poor skinny breastbone on each rung all the way back down. Poor thing. She flaps her wings to get up, but since there are no feathers it doesn't help any. Last night she did the same thing. She knows the routine now and when I bring her in she walks right in to her carrier and settles down nice and comfy. I guess since this is not a molt that means unless I can figure out what's going on with her feathers and find a cure, she may never get healthy feathers in again. I wish I could afford to take her to a poultry vet and do some research or testing, but just can't. I understand what you mean about keeping her with the flock Bee, and I would do it if she had more weight on her bones. If she hangs on and has to spend the whole winter in the house I'll just keep trying different things to get some weight on her and feathers coming in. If anyone stumbles upon information regarding a feather disease or condition that causes the feathers to break off and fall out, plus very dry skin, please let me know!

Good comparison picture of Oprah and Whoopie


Oprah's legs showing bump or twist in leg she limps on and her feet


Checking herself out in the mirror


Ready to go outside for the day

 

[Beekissed]

I think that time, FF, the fats from the suet, some dusting with wood ashes and an application or two of Nustock will get her fit as a fiddle. You can always place her on the roost at night between her fluffy flock mates and this will also help her to get more feather growth. Then it's time to sit back and just let these good methods work their magic and watch her bloom!

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Have you wormed her recently? There are forms of dermatitis that can cause this, but I'm thinkin' that she's got internal parasites. There are a few treatments that are remarkably safe, even for very weak/sick birds ... fenbendazole, for example, has been proven to cause no negative impact even at 100 times the suggested dosages.

I've a dog w/ hair loss and itching issues, and have tried everything in the world to help him -- even to the point of spendin' more per pound for his food that I could buy meat for. Finally? I tried an athlete's foot spray, with an additional compound that treats ringworm. Whatever the fungus that was almost certainly involved, it was affected by at least one of the compounds w/in the spray ... might be worth a shot as well.

 

[Chickmate]

Have you wormed her recently? There are forms of dermatitis that can cause this, but I'm thinkin' that she's got internal parasites. There are a few treatments that are remarkably safe, even for very weak/sick birds ... fenbendazole, for example, has been proven to cause no negative impact even at 100 times the suggested dosages.

I've a dog w/ hair loss and itching issues, and have tried everything in the world to help him -- even to the point of spendin' more per pound for his food that I could buy meat for. Finally? I tried an athlete's foot spray, with an additional compound that treats ringworm. Whatever the fungus that was almost certainly involved, it was affected by at least one of the compounds w/in the spray ... might be worth a shot as well.

I have wormed the whole flock three times this year with Ivomec. I don't see any worms in their poop and not sure what else to look for besides that. A couple of them consistantly have watery poops but act completely normal otherwise and do not seem sickly like Oprah. If there are no negative affects I guess it couldn't hurt to worm all of them again just to be sure. Thanks for the tip on the athlete's foot spray, I guess I need to start thinking 'out of the box' to come up with ways to treat her. Her skin is so flakey and dry I would love to be able to put something on her that would add some moisture, just not sure what might make her sick if she preens her feathers. I'm definitely getting some Nu-Stock as soon as I can.

She is not eating the FF but I'm wondering if it's because I've let it ferment too long? It's not moldy or anything but it does smell pretty strong and yeasty. She really dove into it in the beginning when it had a mild nutty smell, so I fed the rest to the flock and am starting a new batch for her to see if she'll start eating it again. I never see her eating from the dry crumbles in the run and I'm not sure she can survive only on what she free ranges. Any thoughts on that? She still will not drink water so I'm hoping she's drinking while she's outside and I'm just not seeing her.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

I have wormed the whole flock three times this year with Ivomec. I don't see any worms in their poop and not sure what else to look for besides that. A couple of them consistantly have watery poops but act completely normal otherwise and do not seem sickly like Oprah. If there are no negative affects I guess it couldn't hurt to worm all of them again just to be sure. Thanks for the tip on the athlete's foot spray, I guess I need to start thinking 'out of the box' to come up with ways to treat her. Her skin is so flakey and dry I would love to be able to put something on her that would add some moisture, just not sure what might make her sick if she preens her feathers. I'm definitely getting some Nu-Stock as soon as I can.

She is not eating the FF but I'm wondering if it's because I've let it ferment too long? It's not moldy or anything but it does smell pretty strong and yeasty. She really dove into it in the beginning when it had a mild nutty smell, so I fed the rest to the flock and am starting a new batch for her to see if she'll start eating it again. I never see her eating from the dry crumbles in the run and I'm not sure she can survive only on what she free ranges. Any thoughts on that? She still will not drink water so I'm hoping she's drinking while she's outside and I'm just not seeing her.

I've no experience w/ the fermented food, but have a bit w/ fermenting grain for other purposes (I'm a big fan of top-quality moonshine and home-made beer ~'-)

There's almost gotta be a fairly fine line between ready and spoiled, and there are some molds and fungi that are often found in what might appear to be fresh grains ... all that makes me personally nervous, but mostly due to my ignorance of it.

As to worming in general, I'm a huge fan of diggin' up studies so as to determine which dosages provide 100% effectiveness, so as to decrease the possibilities of creating my own personal drug-resistant parasites ... ivomec is ivermectin, and is quickly losing ground in this area, due to folks using it in minimal amounts to deal w/ external parasites. There's a thread on here somewhere where a lady in Australia was usin' a pill marketed there to treat her flock, and the ingredient intended to deal w/ the tapeworms was only 4mg/kg, which wasn't enough to wipe out all of the adults, and she'd been tryin' for quite some time ... I'd imagine the ingredient had become most nearly useless, in her specific case.

Easier for me to just find it, so you can review all the details, and then review the background history of treatment(s) used on this bird ...

The first response, in which you can find a few useful links, and the basic theory:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/722841/tapeworm-blockage#post_9929615

The follow-up, which identified the problem found, and outlines my approach:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/722841/tapeworm-blockage/10#post_9935756

 

[delisha]

When the FF gets to a certain point they really seem to not like it as much. The best way is to add crumbles to it and some water. It gets pretty fermenty selling about the third week. You can try her with some ground up pumpkin seeds in the FF.

 

[Chickmate]

Little Ms. Oprah did something tonight that blew me away. We (me, dogs and chickens) were outside all day because it was so nice out. I was watching her peck around with the flock thinking she looks almost normal except for her feathers. She is very alert and when a redtailed hawk flew into a nearby tree and Worf sounded the alarm she was leading the pack on the run back to the hiding place under the deck. I also watched her drink from the water pail so I know she IS drinking. So the dogs and I came in the house around 4:30 p.m. when it was getting toward dusk. I looked out around 5:00 to see if the chickens had gone in so I could go out and get Oprah and close the coop up for the night. The rest of the flock was in but Oprah was somewhat tentatively standing by the gate. When I went out on the porch and she saw me she started running toward the house. I'm thinking "this can't be, can it?" Was she waiting for me to come out to get her? Did she get tired of waiting and decide to come look for me? I was sure she would turn around and go back to the coop, but she came up the steps one by one. I held the back door open and said "come on in Oprah, time for bed." I'm still thinking she's not going to walk into the house, no way. As she got closer I wanted to go get my camera, but I knew she'd turn around if I shut the door. Sure enough, even with the dogs sitting there watching her, she stepped up and inside onto the rug and slowly walked right into the laundry room! I was totally floored. I know chickens are smart, I've seen them learn things quickly before, but never did I think she would do this! I was just wondering to myself as I worked outside whether she really wanted to be in the house at night or not. I guess this means she does! Now I'm really in love with her.

Her crop is full again and I saw her drink today, so she's good for tonight. I gave her the new batch of FF this morning and she did eat a bit more than before, but still not a lot. I guess I'll try to feed her fresher stuff and if it gets too yeasty smelling the flock will devour it.

Cowcreek, thanks for the info on worming. I've decided to take some fecal samples in for testing so I can for sure rule out any kind of worms. There is so much information out there that seems to contradict that it makes me dizzy. I'm also going to take her back in to the vet to have him pull a few feathers and check under a microscope for any kind of lice or mites. I have read so many different articles about how to tell if they have them and that you should be able to see them with the naked eye, but recently read one that said you need to pull feathers and immediately put them in a plastic bag because the second you pull them the lice/mites will disperse and you won't see them. It suggested a vet checking with a microscope, so I'm not leaving any stone unturned in making sure she doesn't have parasites.

One other thing I noticed today while observing her is that the ends of the few long wing feathers she has left seem to curl up toward her back instead of being straight. It's hard to explain, but kind of like the curve of a smile ) like that instead of like this \, but of course held horizontally against her body instead of up and down. Well that was really stupid, I'm sure no one knows what I'm talking about, right? I tried to compare with the other hens but they all have so many feathers I couldn't see if theirs were straight or curved.

So she seems to be getting better very slowly but still looks like she stuck her toe in a light socket. Thanks so much to anyone who is actually reading this. It sure helps to talk to other people who care about chickens as well and are willing to offer advice and feedback.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Due to the very low risk worming presents, and the fact that testing dropping is both expensive and inconclusive? I'd be inclined to simply treat the bird.

Here's an excellent table of the helminths that may infect poultry, from the Merck Vet Manual (link w/in my signature ~'-)
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/htm/bc/tpou05.htm
And, my favorite pdf for intestinal worms in chickens, w/ all the treatment options, and pictures, too ~'-)
http://www.healthybirds.umd.edu/disease/deworming birds.pdf

Noteworthy points to consider:

Praziquantel is 100% effective against adult tapeworms at the dosage of 10 mg/kg body weight.
Fenbendazole is proven safe, even to 100 times the suggested dosage, but doesn't treat tapeworms.
Albendazole is also proven safe, and is effective against all intestinal worms.

Also, simply dusting her w/ either sevin or permethrin poultry dust eliminates lice/mites, for around eight bucks.

This is, of course, your bird, and entirely your decision, but one trip to the Vet pays for everything you could think of to treat this bird for her entire life.

I realize using chemical compounds goes against what many folks wish to do (myself, included), but ... you're not plannin' on eating this bird, and have no need for eggs from her any time soon, and the long-term effects of being in such poor health for such a long time creates a sore spot for your entire flock, and is surely doing more harm to her system than any of the commonly used treatments could ever do.