Not Sure What's Goin on with My Hen

[Chickmate]

Due to the very low risk worming presents, and the fact that testing dropping is both expensive and inconclusive? I'd be inclined to simply treat the bird.

Here's an excellent table of the helminths that may infect poultry, from the Merck Vet Manual (link w/in my signature ~'-)
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/htm/bc/tpou05.htm
And, my favorite pdf for intestinal worms in chickens, w/ all the treatment options, and pictures, too ~'-)
http://www.healthybirds.umd.edu/disease/deworming birds.pdf

Noteworthy points to consider:

Praziquantel is 100% effective against adult tapeworms at the dosage of 10 mg/kg body weight.
Fenbendazole is proven safe, even to 100 times the suggested dosage, but doesn't treat tapeworms.
Albendazole is also proven safe, and is effective against all intestinal worms.

Also, simply dusting her w/ either sevin or permethrin poultry dust eliminates lice/mites, for around eight bucks.

This is, of course, your bird, and entirely your decision, but one trip to the Vet pays for everything you could think of to treat this bird for her entire life.

I realize using chemical compounds goes against what many folks wish to do (myself, included), but ... you're not plannin' on eating this bird, and have no need for eggs from her any time soon, and the long-term effects of being in such poor health for such a long time creates a sore spot for your entire flock, and is surely doing more harm to her system than any of the commonly used treatments could ever do.

I know taking her to a vet would be expensive and it's certainly not money I have to spend, but nothing I have done has helped her so far. I have dusted her with Sevin three or four times but for the last 6-8 months her feathers have looked like they are being chewed by lice. I'd like to have someone tell me once and for all, does she have them or not? I simply don't see them but dusting her has done nothing to improve her condition. I have also wormed her three times with no change in her appearance. The only noticeable change is that her comb and wattles used to be extremely pale and are now nice and red all the time. I'm at a loss as to what is wrong with her and nothing I have done has made any difference. I'd like the vet to rule out worms and lice or mites so I know that I'm dealing with some type of disease and can then decide what to do. If he tells me she's got worms I'll get the Albendazole and treat her with that. This morning she ate quite a bit of soaked cat food which she seems to prefer over anything else. I think I'll give her that for a week and then try the FF again. I have become leary of the Sevin at this point because I understand the company is now saying it is not for use on chickens and when I told the vet I had dusted her with it he said it was pretty toxic stuff and I was probably doing more harm than good. If he says she has mites or lice I'm going to try Bee's wood ash solution or poultry dust.

 

[Beekissed]

For one thing you are expecting some mighty fast results....feathers just don't correct themselves or grow out overnight and it hasn't been that long since you've started various treatments.

Didn't the vet already state they didn't know what is wrong with the chicken?

Sevin is not miracle dust and many even report that it has little to no effect on their birds. Some even report that the absorption of the chemicals in the dust into their chicken's skin caused their birds to get sick and show signs of toxicity~feather loss, redness and scaliness of skin, listless and going off of feed. Is it any wonder her feathers are literally falling out of her skin as soon as they grow?

That's one thing people do not take into account when using chemicals....it's a chemical and has many warnings on the bottle/can if you just take time to read them. Some animals can be hypersensitive to these chemicals or even have an allergic reaction. They are nothing to be played with but I see where folks just lay that dust into their animals like it was baby powder. It's a poison....no ifs, ands or buts...poison. Anything you place on their skin can be absorbed INTO that skin and right into the blood stream.

Tell me how quickly you would recover if someone was putting poisons into your bloodstream three or four times over?

You've given chemical dewormers and they too were ineffective.

So far the game plan has been pour poisons on her skin and into her mouth until she starts showing an improvement, darn it!!!

My mama always says, "If you always do what you've always done, you will always have what you always had."

Might be time to change your methods.....

Might even be time to cull the poor bird and put her out of her~and your~misery.

 

[chicknmania]

If I had to guess I'd say it's a nutrition absorbtion sp) issue, which seems to be common in birds. that would account for why she's back and forth like that.
If that's the cse though, I doubt she will improve much. No need to cull her that I can see, as long as she's eating and drinking. Contact Peter Brown the chicken
doctor, like I think I said earlier. He could mayb e hellp you. He's a poultry expert, and has saved a lot of our birds.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Apparently got logged out prior to submitting, but was quick enough to capture my failed response ...

(double-click image to view the larger version ~'-)​

 

[CluckyCharms]

As far as I can tell these were her symptoms in this order:

stopped laying eggs
started limping
lost weight
feathers falling out for no apparent reason

I think Oprah's problem is: hormone imbalance and since hens have only one "working" ovary...a hormonal imbalance in a chicken would virtually wipe out egg production.

Some will chuckle or laugh perhaps, but her symptoms are exactly what mine were. I have PCOS and this is what happened in this order:

stopped ovulating (stopped laying eggs)
starting limping because hormones DO affect your muscles, joints and ligaments.
lost weight because I was ill (even if Oprah eats well that doesn't mean her body is processing the nutrients the same way a hen without a hormone problem would)
hair falling out for no apparent reason (caused by hormone imbalance)

After natural hormone balancing plants and animal sources:

ovulate every three months (excellent for me anyway)
no limping, but still have the pain just not as bad
gained weight (gained too much actually, now I have to work backward)
hair isn't falling out in chunks...it's just thinner than I would like.



I would do a little bit of research on hormone balancing sources from nature (plants, animals and sealife) and then do some research on whether or not those sources are safe for chicken consumption and just **try** it for a little while. If it's natural and safe for chicken consumption it won't hurt her either way and she has nothing to lose....but possibly feathers to gain and eggs to produce.

I'm brand new to chickens and I might be completely full of chickenpoop...but I really think that's what she has.


I know a hormone blood panel test from my RE is $75.00 each time....I can't imagine it would be more than that for an animal at a vet's office. Maybe your vet can run a test like this on Oprah?

 

[Chickmate]

I would do a little bit of research on hormone balancing sources from nature (plants, animals and sealife) and then do some research on whether or not those sources are safe for chicken consumption and just **try** it for a little while. If it's natural and safe for chicken consumption it won't hurt her either way and she has nothing to lose....but possibly feathers to gain and eggs to produce.

Thanks again for the advice and ideas everyone. CluckyCharms, you might have something there. I am going to talk to my vet and see if he thinks a hormone imbalance could be the problem. I just did a little research and found a list of plants and herbal supplements that are known to balance hormones in women. I'll research those to see if they could be harmful to a chicken, maybe run it by the vet and then try some on Oprah. Like you said, if they are natural and not toxic to chickens it couldn't hurt her.

She does seem to be doing better. Today I swear she has feathers on her back where she didn't before. I could see white skin over most of her back and now not so much. She is eating very well and at around 5:00 p.m. comes to the back door to get in her carrier when the others go to roost in the coop. Yesterday she ate a little bowl of turkey, mashed potatoes, green beans and sweet potatoes along with some soaked cat food. I also got a call from a friend who has found me some wood ash to dust the flock in so I'm delighted about that. She seems even more alert than before and at least has not gotten any skinnier than she was.

 

[Chickmate]

I had another vet appointment for my cat and took Oprah along to see if he could see any improvement in her. He was very surprised when I took her out of the carrier and said she did look better than the last time he saw her. He asked what I was doing for her and said he thinks she has an immune problem but would have to run tests to verify that. I told him I was going to keep doing what I have been to see if she continues to improve without spending a lot of money on her. I realize that she may decline and I have to put her down anyway. As long as she was there and dropped a poop I had them test it for worms. It came back clean, no parasites at all, so at least I know that much.

 

[Chickmate]

Well, little Oprah is still hanging in there. In fact, she's doing pretty good. She still sleeps in the house and goes out with the flock during the day. I leave the door on her carrier open and she spends most of her time at night sitting on a towel on the washing machine in front of the furnace. I had to go away for the weekend to help with a big party my sister-in-law was having and I took Oprah with me. She is very laid back and calm and does not get frightened easily, so she just went with the flow and didn't seem to mind being shuffled around a bit. She ate very well the whole time and learned that when I stopped for McDonald's the dogs got a plain hamburger patty and she got the buns. By the third stop she was standing up in her crate waiting for it. She definitely does have more feathers and has put on a bit of weight but still has a very prominent breastbone. She is very vocal and alert. She eats the soaked cat food and FF with some red bulgur wheat in it. I give her a few bites of the cat food and then offer her the FF and am trying to get her switched over onto the FF completely. Her feathers are still breaking off but it doesn't seem quite as bad as before. I still don't know if she's out of the woods but seems to be much better than she was.

 

[gg706]

I am not in any way implying that you should cull her. Just wanted to share an unwanted experience I had to deal with that may help you IF it comes to ending her suffering. I had a hen that was really suffering and I felt I needed to end her suffering. I had nursed her for 3 days....spent $50.00 on supplies to nurse her. Only to do what I knew needed to be done. I had never killed a chicken before (I did have to end 2 chicks to stop their suffering but it is different when the chicken is full size and you have had her for a while) Anyway, I made the decision and got out my big tree branch loppers made sure they were good and sharp. In the dark took her out behind the shed. I had the house light on so some light was getting out there so I could see, but not alot. In the dark chickens are pretty relaxed and unaware.....It helped her and I that it was dark. I said a prayer to take my pet quickly , put my foot gently over her on the ground to hold her in the same place. Opened the loppers and placed them around her neck....said another prayer and clamped them as quickly and hard as I could. She flapped a bit and then fell silent. She went pretty quick. It was not easy but it was in her best intrest and mine. In the end, the way I cared for her most was to end her suffering. Again I am not saying this should be your decision. Listen to your gut feeling. If it is saying she is improving and you are hopeful, continue within reason. If your gut is saying you are getting no where and she is suffering make the decision and do it.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

I had another vet appointment for my cat and took Oprah along to see if he could see any improvement in her. He was very surprised when I took her out of the carrier and said she did look better than the last time he saw her. He asked what I was doing for her and said he thinks she has an immune problem but would have to run tests to verify that. I told him I was going to keep doing what I have been to see if she continues to improve without spending a lot of money on her. I realize that she may decline and I have to put her down anyway. As long as she was there and dropped a poop I had them test it for worms. It came back clean, no parasites at all, so at least I know that much.

Glad she's showing some signs of improvement, despite still havin' somethin' goin' on ... as beekissed said, these things take time, esp. when it comes to feathers 'n such. There is no test req'd to determine the state of Oprah's immune system, as deficiencies w/in the immune system are almost always the result of a problem, rather than the immediate/direct cause. And, in those rare cases it is? There's not a whole lot that can be done about it.

Very important for folks to know -- the float test does NOT rule out all internal parasites, but only verifies in most cases the presence of some, as evidence from some worms and in some scenarios cannot be found w/in their droppings. There are only two ways to be certain: Necropsy, or proper/effective treatment.

There's some important differences between cat food and chicken feed, although I don't specifically know what they are -- cat food is often used to increase overall protein levels, but not as a continuous diet -- the U.S. Gov't has very specific minimum/maximum requirements, both for the content and the labeling, for this very reason. The information pertaining to these restrictions provides the answers, and good cause for concern (learned of this because I intended to only begin w/ the cheapest cat food, as an ingredient for building a better feed for game birds ~'-)

There is constant research goin' on out there, and I'm always stumblin' into some really good informations ...
Poultry infected with the parasite Eimeria maxima usually develop avian coccidiosis. Now, ARS immunologist Hyun Lillehoj* aims to find dietary supplements that strengthen the poultry immune system.

Lillehoj, at the ARS Animal Parasitic Diseases Laboratory in Beltsville, Md., cooperated on the research with scientists at South Korea's Gyeongsang National University College of Veterinary Medicine.
The researchers discovered that chickens that consumed ground green tea for 2 weeks prior to parasitic infection produced significantly fewer fecal E. maxima oocysts than the control group. This finding could help reduce the spread of infection in poultry houses.
Working with ARS visiting molecular biologist Sung-Hyen Lee and Imagilin Technology LLC, in Frederick, Md., Lillehoj evaluated the effects of adding commercial probiotics to poultry diets. Probiotics are health-promoting dietary supplements derived from live bacteria or yeasts.
Chickens eating diets supplemented with Pediococcus-based probiotics reduced their oocyte production, increased the production of cytokines essential for a strong immune response, and experienced improved weight gain.
Poultry immunities got a similar boost from a combination of Pediococcus and a yeast-based commercial probiotic product. Chickens that consumed a probiotic combination of lactic acid bacterium and yeasts also showed a significant antibody response to parasites.
Lillehoj, Lee, and other colleagues from South Korea collaborated with scientists at the Rural Development Administration - South Korea's national agricultural research organisation - to see if other phytonutrients might also be beneficial. They found that plum powder supplements stimulated spleen immune cell production and killed tumour cells. Infected poultry fed with the supplement also gained weight and reduced parasite shedding.
Supplements of safflower, which have been used by traditional Chinese practitioners for thousands of years, were found to be similarly beneficial.
Source: Agricultural Research Service (ARS)


The best way to improve Oprah's immune system is to understand how the avian immune system works -->>peck here<< for an excellent resource (link opens in a new window ~'-)