November/December "Hatch-a-Long"

[Farmer Viola]

there is not 2 air cells- if there is clear on the pointed end after day 20 the egg didn't finish developing right and might not hatch. you can keep it in the incubator if you wish and still try- 2 of mine were clearish on day 18 and they hatched. the clear on the point is undigested fluids.

I assure you, there are 2 air cells. Please re-read what I said happened to the egg. The egg arrived with a detached air cell. It healed. I laid it on its side. It ripped. I can see the rip when I candle. There is a very well defined 2nd air cell in this egg. I am thinking it might cause a deformity or malposition.

This is a different case than what you are describing with the yolk in the bottom, I know exactly what that looks like.

This rip killed 1 egg. The other egg that ripped appears to have lived. It has red blood vessels even though I thought the rip killed it initially.

 

[gimmie birdies]

well good luck with you birds.

 

[DeannaA]

I am confused over something I hope you guys can help me understand. I have a few breeds I'd like to breed. I am not going for show chickens. I want healthy strong, good quaity to sell. I appreciate the information I get on the breed threads but according to them, not one chicken ever is good enough to breed but theirs even if their defects are worse than mine. If I buy eggs or chicks, I am not expecting show quality. I expect healthy chicks. Not mixed or perfect. Everything I have bought, no matter where I have bought it from is apparently crap. I see beautiful healthy happy chickens. I don't want to breed crap but where is the resonable line? Not the perfect line?

You guys on here seem to have simular interests as I do. If you bought a dozen eggs and you hatched 11 of 12 and the chicks were strong, healthy, good natured but the butt was slightly narrow or the tail not quite wide enough, would you feel cheated? Would you expect perfect chicks? I do not want to get rid of every chicken I have but if I go by the advice I have been given, I have maybe 3 out of 65 chickens that I can breed. Anything obviouly faulted, goes in the layer flock. But I have some beautiful chickens from hard to find breeds but their tail is slightly pinched and another breeds butt isn't quite the perfect width.

How do you guys decide which to breed and which to cull? Bad feet, weak, small, discolored, deformities, I understand. Or if it's a poor layer and it is an egg chicken or small for a meat chicken.

 

[Farmer Viola]

I know exactly what you mean Deanna, and it hurts when the baby you are the most attached to has the most breed disqualifications. I am having the same exact internal struggle as you, and I don't know what to do either..

I have 6 different breeds with standards they are "suppose" to adhere to. Right now I am only focused on getting 1 breed correct, the blue laced red Wyandottes. I am keeping all the other breeds around as my layer flock, regardless of their shortfalls. I am not keeping roos of those breeds, I don't have enough separate pens to breed them how I want. Maybe in time...

There was one lady in the Wyandotte thread who said that she went through a hundred birds to arrive at 3 that she kept for breeding. WOW! That is incredible to think about, number wise. I think it is perfectly normal to see what you are seeing with the "high number" of "faults." I have DQ faults on 2 of 6 Wyandottes, so I will try to sell them with a roo as a pair when they are older. I am going to keep hatching Wyandottes to try and get the # of hens I want to breed without faults. If I could pick a 2nd breeding project it would be Ameraucanas.

So maybe try to zone in on which breed you really want to make into your breeding project? And just allow all the other ones to have their faults and lay nice eggs for you? I am not against culling for the dinner table either, if my roos and rejected pullets don't get sold, they will definitely be eaten.

hope this helps somehow lol, probably clear as mud!!

 

[malndobe]

I am confused over something I hope you guys can help me understand. I have a few breeds I'd like to breed. I am not going for show chickens. I want healthy strong, good quaity to sell. I appreciate the information I get on the breed threads but according to them, not one chicken ever is good enough to breed but theirs even if their defects are worse than mine. If I buy eggs or chicks, I am not expecting show quality. I expect healthy chicks. Not mixed or perfect. Everything I have bought, no matter where I have bought it from is apparently crap. I see beautiful healthy happy chickens. I don't want to breed crap but where is the resonable line? Not the perfect line?

You guys on here seem to have simular interests as I do. If you bought a dozen eggs and you hatched 11 of 12 and the chicks were strong, healthy, good natured but the butt was slightly narrow or the tail not quite wide enough, would you feel cheated? Would you expect perfect chicks? I do not want to get rid of every chicken I have but if I go by the advice I have been given, I have maybe 3 out of 65 chickens that I can breed. Anything obviouly faulted, goes in the layer flock. But I have some beautiful chickens from hard to find breeds but their tail is slightly pinched and another breeds butt isn't quite the perfect width.

How do you guys decide which to breed and which to cull? Bad feet, weak, small, discolored, deformities, I understand. Or if it's a poor layer and it is an egg chicken or small for a meat chicken.

Based on my reading pinched tails don't have anything to do with a hens egg laying abilities. The feathers in question are attached to the tail, not the pelvis area, so the set of the feathers isn't going to have anything to do with how wide the bird is or it's ability to pass eggs. It also seems to be a common fault in hatchery birds, which are bred more for production than looks. If there was a direct correlation between the tail feathers and the ability to lay high quantities of eggs, the selection process would have created birds with a more open tail.

If I bought eggs/chicks from a breeder who was advertising show quality birds, and 11 out of 12 had pinched tails, I would feel cheated. It's a dominant trait and that many hatching with it tells me one or both of the parents probably have pinched tails and therefore aren't the show quality they were advertised as. So my "being cheated" feelings wouldn't be as much about the birds ability as a layer, but that they were falsely advertised. And frankly, a couple years ago, when I was just buying chickens for eggs, if I had gotten SQ chickens from a breeder who then laid 100 eggs in a year I would have been very unhappy. It would have been my own fault for not researching things, but I think the average buyer wants an attractive bird that lays a lot of eggs, and will feel cheated if they get attractive without the eggs.

If I bought eggs/chicks from someone who said "these birds will look like the breed they are, to the average person. They will be healthy, robust birds with good temperaments and a high rate of production" and I got birds that looked for the most part like their breed (ie it's supposed to be a SLW and it's got proper lacing and color but the back is a little long, the tail is a little high and it's not as fluffy/round) then I'd be happy. Now if it's supposed to a SLW and it turns out looking like a Buff Orpington, not so much.

If your main criteria is robust, fast maturing birds with a good temperament that lay well, then that should be your selection criteria. Once you select your best birds in those areas, then you should select the ones with the best breed type, and that's what you continue forward with as your breeding stock. If you advertise the birds this way, I can't see someone being upset when they buy one and it's not a show quality bird.

 

[DeannaA]

6 of 12 eggs have hatched so far from my flock at my friends house. Still not due until tomorrow night. It's exciting and I don't have to do any of the work. Woo hoo. Go chickies go!

 

[Farmer Viola]

thought of something else...

even though I have Wyandottes with DQs I could also keep them around forever potentially, and if I want to try and hatch eggs, THEN go through the trouble of separating the good hens from the DQ hens and put them into a breeding pen, THEN collect and incubate their eggs. That way everyone can stay just an idea for you

 

[malndobe]

There was one lady in the Wyandotte thread who said that she went through a hundred birds to arrive at 3 that she kept for breeding. WOW! That is incredible to think about, number wise. I think it is perfectly normal to see what you are seeing with the "high number" of "faults." I have DQ faults on 2 of 6 Wyandottes, so I will try to sell them with a roo as a pair when they are older. I am going to keep hatching Wyandottes to try and get the # of hens I want to breed without faults. If I could pick a 2nd breeding project it would be Ameraucanas.

I've noticed that also. I've been buying BLRW from breeders for 2 years now trying to get a good trio. Breeders who advertise show quality, yet I've gotten all sorts of DQ's. Especially combs. Then there is the color of the birds, the overall shape, split breasts, small birds, slow to mature, lay rates, sickly, and a host of other issues. I'm tempted to try some hatchery birds next LOL I'm toying with scrapping the entire BLRW project and instead introducing the blue laced red color into my layer flock where the focus is on production over looks. I won't advertise any chicks I sell as Wyandottes, because they will end up with other breeds in them, just blue laced red mixes. If I stick with my original plan and I'm able to create a flock of BLRW who are healthy, faster to mature, larger sized, etc I will advertise them as BLRW even if they aren't perfect per the SOP. But the ad will state these aren't for show. I come from a working dog breeder background, if the parents are breed A, the pups are breed A, doesn't matter if a conformation person doesn't deem them worthy of the show ring. They still look like the breed in question and more importantly they WORK like the breed in question.

 

[DeannaA]

I had been planning on Bielfelders, Black Copper Marans, Langshans, Legbars and maybe Barnevelers and Sulmtalers. My main project is going to be a Lilac egger. The Langshans were going to be my second but they are all roosters. Maybe one pullet. I wanted to be able to breed somewhat rare chicks so more people could have them but they won't be perfect. I wanted to do it so people could have them for the purpose they were meant for. Laying eggs or meat. The Bielfelders are a dual purpose but cost a fortune. Who is going to eat $100 bird? I have good quality but not perfect. I don't want to breed more breeders, I want to breed egg layers. I wouldn't charge $100 a chick. I would charge much less. I don't know if people would assume they are a lower quality than they are or would say don't breed because you are spreading inferior birds. I don't want to lower the quality of a breed but they are meant for food too. When a trio costs $300, who is going to eat those eggs? But that is what they are meant for. I would like kids in 4H to be able to afford them or people with only a few chickens. I have been buying from people working with breeds for years and still not getting great quality (good, just not great). I am happy with my chickens. I think I will just have to have my own brand of chicken. Well loved, very happy, healthy chickens. A new breed. I'll call them Spoiled Layers.

That doesn't sound right. Loved Layers?

 

[DeannaA]

I've noticed that also. I've been buying BLRW from breeders for 2 years now trying to get a good trio. Breeders who advertise show quality, yet I've gotten all sorts of DQ's. Especially combs. Then there is the color of the birds, the overall shape, split breasts, small birds, slow to mature, lay rates, sickly, and a host of other issues. I'm tempted to try some hatchery birds next LOL I'm toying with scrapping the entire BLRW project and instead introducing the blue laced red color into my layer flock where the focus is on production over looks. I won't advertise any chicks I sell as Wyandottes, because they will end up with other breeds in them, just blue laced red mixes. If I stick with my original plan and I'm able to create a flock of BLRW who are healthy, faster to mature, larger sized, etc I will advertise them as BLRW even if they aren't perfect per the SOP. But the ad will state these aren't for show. I come from a working dog breeder background, if the parents are breed A, the pups are breed A, doesn't matter if a conformation person doesn't deem them worthy of the show ring. They still look like the breed in question and more importantly they WORK like the breed in question.

I agree. I see my chickens almost as dogs. They have feelings and attachments so I have a hard time getting rid of them after the have grown. I gave a friend two of my 4 month old chickens They were never the same. Neither were their sisters. So sad and depressed. Mine eventually got over it but they still have the rest of the flock they grew up with but the ones my friend took has never been happy since. I took one of mine over to visit and her sister was mean to her. That helped her get over it really fast. I know I might sound crazy but the more I watch them the more I see there relationships with each other and how important they are to them. I don't have a problem selling chicks, they don't seem to have developed the attachments yet. I have 2 roosters that grew up together. They get long really well. They even stand by while the other one mates instead of fighting. Creepy but way better than fighting.