Now River Otter's Genetics 101

[RiverOtter]

Well, no decent breeder would breed a washed out looking dog like that to another...

So, no then? Because maybe, just maybe, exactly what I've been saying happens, happens, and you get a dog like mine?

... blk & tan presents itself in many different ways depending on the genetic make up of the dogs being bred

Because there are genetic differences? Like, say. the difference between tan and red? (I saw 2 tans, the rest reds) Or saddle and blanket? (count those too, because I simplified it in my first post, but you know exactly what was meant)
And you would get something different then, if you bred dogs that were genetically the same?
And maybe, just maybe, before color testing was a common or affordable option, a decent breeder might do a test breeding, using two sound, healthy and fashionably-colored-yet-on-the-lighter-end dogs, to be certain that the hopefully future stud had enough of the extender and few enough of the fading genes to stand at stud and hold the kennel name? Perhaps it's even possible that the test mating would prove he didn't, and that he WOULD throw light colored dogs if bred to dogs that carried the same color genes, because those genetics stack in ways the show ring doesn't like.

Thankfully, for me and my dog, not everyone who has a test mating like that euthanizes the off-colored puppies at birth to save their reputation as decent breeders who would never produce a washed out looking dog, since so may folks equate color with quality. My other GSD, a rescue, has all the color saturation anyone could ask for. I'll be lucky if she's sees her 3rd birthday.
@Peaches Lee , he is adorable! And yes, SO real. They will be standing so regally and then I whip out a camera and the hip drops, they yawn, turn their heads so their necks look 3 inches shorter .... Or, they're standing right where the dog dragged some trash. Or here's a favorite

....at least the burdocks are the 2nd thing you notice

 

[Geena]

So, no then? Because maybe, just maybe, exactly what I've been saying happens, happens, and you get a dog like mine?

Because there are genetic differences? Like, say. the difference between tan and red? (I saw 2 tans, the rest reds) Or saddle and blanket? (count those too, because I simplified it in my first post, but you know exactly what was meant)
And you would get something different then, if you bred dogs that were genetically the same?
And maybe, just maybe, before color testing was a common or affordable option, a decent breeder might do a test breeding, using two sound, healthy and fashionably-colored-yet-on-the-lighter-end dogs, to be certain that the hopefully future stud had enough of the extender and few enough of the fading genes to stand at stud and hold the kennel name? Perhaps it's even possible that the test mating would prove he didn't, and that he WOULD throw light colored dogs if bred to dogs that carried the same color genes, because those genetics stack in ways the show ring doesn't like.

Thankfully, for me and my dog, not everyone who has a test mating like that euthanizes the off-colored puppies at birth to save their reputation as decent breeders who would never produce a washed out looking dog, since so may folks equate color with quality. My other GSD, a rescue, has all the color saturation anyone could ask for. I'll be lucky if she's sees her 3rd birthday.
@Peaches Lee , he is adorable! And yes, SO real. They will be standing so regally and then I whip out a camera and the hip drops, they yawn, turn their heads so their necks look 3 inches shorter .... Or, they're standing right where the dog dragged some trash. Or here's a favorite
View attachment 3267139
....at least the burdocks are the 2nd thing you notice

I honestly have no clue what you are going on about there. It's really very simplistic, breed from dogs that have good color and pigment and you'll get dogs that have good color and pigment. No "test breeding" or killing of puppies is necessary. The end.

 

[WallyG74]

Speak on it, girlfriend!

 

[EmmaRainboe]

So, no then? Because maybe, just maybe, exactly what I've been saying happens, happens, and you get a dog like mine?

Because there are genetic differences? Like, say. the difference between tan and red? (I saw 2 tans, the rest reds) Or saddle and blanket? (count those too, because I simplified it in my first post, but you know exactly what was meant)
And you would get something different then, if you bred dogs that were genetically the same?
And maybe, just maybe, before color testing was a common or affordable option, a decent breeder might do a test breeding, using two sound, healthy and fashionably-colored-yet-on-the-lighter-end dogs, to be certain that the hopefully future stud had enough of the extender and few enough of the fading genes to stand at stud and hold the kennel name? Perhaps it's even possible that the test mating would prove he didn't, and that he WOULD throw light colored dogs if bred to dogs that carried the same color genes, because those genetics stack in ways the show ring doesn't like.

Thankfully, for me and my dog, not everyone who has a test mating like that euthanizes the off-colored puppies at birth to save their reputation as decent breeders who would never produce a washed out looking dog, since so may folks equate color with quality. My other GSD, a rescue, has all the color saturation anyone could ask for. I'll be lucky if she's sees her 3rd birthday.
@Peaches Lee , he is adorable! And yes, SO real. They will be standing so regally and then I whip out a camera and the hip drops, they yawn, turn their heads so their necks look 3 inches shorter .... Or, they're standing right where the dog dragged some trash. Or here's a favorite
View attachment 3267139
....at least the burdocks are the 2nd thing you notice

Wow. That tail is... wow.

 

[RiverOtter]

I honestly have no clue what you are going on about there.

Yeah, I got that. It's called genetics and base coat modifiers, but I'm tired of repeating myself. For horse folks, it's like cremello vs perlino. They look a lot alike, but they're different. Trying to make it simple. The end.

 

[Geena]

Yeah, I got that. It's called genetics and base coat modifiers, but I'm tired of repeating myself. For horse folks, it's like cremello vs perlino. They look a lot alike, but they're different. Trying to make it simple. The end.

...and there's that lovely attitude again.
We somehow went from the original subject where you stated that in GSDs you have to breed in a bi-color or sable every other generation or the dogs will fade out to nothing (which I showed to be incorrect) to breeding faded dogs only to faded dogs, and now to comparing them to cremello horses?
I've noticed some people tend to resort to a bunch of genetic gobbledygook when they know that they are wrong.
You don't need to know ANYTHING about genetics to answer this question. Washed out colors are, and always have been, a serious fault in GSDs. They are highly undesirable- don't breed washed out dogs. Only the most ignorant of BYBs would breed a washed out dog to a washed out dog.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Wow. That tail is... wow.

Good wow or bad wow. I hope for my sake good, because I'm very jealous of it

 

[Peaches Lee]

@RiverOtter Actually the burdocks were the first thing I noticed LOL! That's because it's long been a battle on my farm! But yeah, boy horses, they can be fun!

And also, is this thread no longer all horse?

 

[RiverOtter]

Good wow or bad wow. I hope for my sake good, because I'm very jealous of it

She means all the burdocks, she's trying to be insulting. All my youngsters got in them and rolled. Burdocks from forelocks to tail tips.
And I used up all my mineral oil on a colicky mule and the kid who wants to intern here can't get a ride out to help, and the owner had new fence delivered and so Sitka STILL has a tail full of burdocks because even when I get a minute, he'll only let me do it for a minute.

Since he's only just 2 (and I have 11 other babies to have this argument with) it's really not worth battling with him to get him to stand over this, as he'll just associate it with being unpleasant, especially without a helper to fuss over him with sweet talk and apple slivers. I may end up just trimming most of them out. Which totally breaks my heart, but it will be grown back by next summer when he's showing at halter and having his first inspections.

@Peaches Lee , what do you use for burdocks? My only trick is mineral oil, elbow grease and patience.

 

[Painted Calls]

She means all the burdocks, she's trying to be insulting. All my youngsters got in them and rolled. Burdocks from forelocks to tail tips.
And I used up all my mineral oil on a colicky mule and the kid who wants to intern here can't get a ride out to help, and the owner had new fence delivered and so Sitka STILL has a tail full of burdocks because even when I get a minute, he'll only let me do it for a minute.

Since he's only just 2 (and I have 11 other babies to have this argument with) it's really not worth battling with him to get him to stand over this, as he'll just associate it with being unpleasant, especially without a helper to fuss over him with sweet talk and apple slivers. I may end up just trimming most of them out. Which totally breaks my heart, but it will be grown back by next summer when he's showing at halter and having his first inspections.

@Peaches Lee , what do you use for burdocks? My only trick is mineral oil, elbow grease and patience.

I use ShowSheen. That dry oil type of texture works way better with less struggling. Though I've never had horses get them that bad. I get cockleburs here and there, but keep them sprayed to avoid this.