TOB - I have some Raspberries planted but plan to do more. Grapes is a good idea. My main purpose is to make them difficult to see from the air. With the snow black birds are easy to see. In the non winter it's the white birds. It's to bad birds don't come in "green". BR's are not so easy to spot. Sunnyside - I've never heard of Jostaberries. Are they a cane or shrub? How do they propagate? Of course I'll research them. Some berries are not commercially done due to cost effectiveness, so you've got to look far and wide. Too, they are so easy to grow anyone can grow them, so don't pay for them. I do jellies and jams so planting lots of berries is worth it to me. Why anyone would buy jellies is beyond me now. You can do a years worth in a day. Of course not if you keep giving them away like I do.