Officer (Leskin) Well I swear this is never ending post 306

Discussion in 'Local Chicken Laws & Ordinances' started by Holly O, Aug 6, 2009.

  1. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    farrier! :

    What if anything do the laws say about chickens?

    post #25 of https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=207037&p=3
    I just received ordinance papers on the Coop building, But nothing to do about the Chickens.

    YET!

    I was given a letter by the officer 10 min ago. Came, dropped it off, LEFT!


    June 29 2009
    RE: ordinance Violation

    This letter is to advise you that your property located at ____ is in violation of _____ township.
    Ordinance #70 Building permit required for all Construction and
    Ordinance #144 ____ Township Zoning Ordinance
    You have until July 6, 2009 to make application for Building Permit For Shed/Chicken coop that you built to the rear of your property. Also the Chickens must be removed from the property by said date.
    Failure to do so will result in a Citation being filed daily at the office of District Judge ________. this letter shall be your one any only warning.

    ______
    Chief of Police.


    My husband has it taken care of on the coop/shed thing. No worries on that.

    But the Chicken ordinance is still being withheld from us.
    My husband and I will be going to get it tomorrow at 5pm.
    Apparently we need an appointment.

    Post #79 dated 3 July:
    O K they finally got the ordinance in it's entirety to me.
    And the word poultry or chicken are not even in the document, ANYWHERE!

    No wonder they did not want me to have this document.

    They have no leg to stand on what so ever, in their decisions.

    They will need to prove, I am making money in any way from my babies. Which I am not!

    It stated Animal Husbandry in the agricultural section.

    Definition of Animal Husbandry
    Animal husbandry, also called animal science, stockbreeding or simple husbandry, is the agricultural practice of breeding and raising livestock. It has been practiced for thousands of years, since the first domestication of animals.


    Which I am not doing neither.

    And post #3 of this thread:
    Well yesterday he told me I got a building permit for a storage shed and because I'm not using it for it's intended purpose I need to dismantle it by Sunday evening.

    Has anyone else noticed that the original citation refers to "Building Permit For Shed/Chicken coop"?​
     
  2. farrier!

    farrier! Songster

    Feb 28, 2009
    Southern Illinois
    Do you have the ordiance book in hand or are you still going by what has been given to you?
    You need a copy of all the ordinances, this will also include what they can do about someone not following and give you an idea as to when the ordiance took effect.
     
  3. cassie

    cassie Crowing

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    You are storing your chickens in the storage shed. If you want, you could put in a cupboard or shelf high up and store something in/on it. Besides, it doesn't say WHAT you are to store in the storage shed anyway.

    You might ask Officer Whatshisname straight out why he is having such a fit about the chickens anyway. Particularly since he cannot cite any ordinance that prohibits them. Also, since he thinks the shed needs to be torn down because it is not being used for its intended purpose, ask him how many garages in town he is going to demand be torn down because nobody parks a car in them.
     
  4. WalkingWolf

    WalkingWolf Songster

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    Quote:She can always 'store' chicken feed' in the storage shed. [​IMG]
     
  5. Holly O

    Holly O Songster

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    farrier! :

    Do you have the ordiance book in hand or are you still going by what has been given to you?
    You need a copy of all the ordinances, this will also include what they can do about someone not following and give you an idea as to when the ordiance took effect.

    I have a 67 page copy of the ordinance. Nothing about what they can do on non compliance. Is in the document.

    As to the officer he told me he talked to the township lawyer and he is going on his advice. I myself called the lawyer (I know, Me Bad) after talking with him he said he was under the impression I was Farming them and increasing the number of birds to my flock. As it is I had started with 12 birds and am down to 8. and I personally have not heard of anyone able to make a profit from 8 birds.
    The lawyer said that THAT makes a difference.

    We only have two officers in our township. I'm not feeling protected what so ever. Our Township Supervisors will now make No Comment about anything. So I'm unable to put any trust in them whatsoever.

    Sonoran Silkies
    Your such a dear ... Thank you for referencing all that for farrier!
     
  6. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    Holly,
    Have you read all 67 pages? Is there anywhere in the document that lists allowed uses in residential areas? Is there anywhere that they say that unless specifically mentioned as an allowed use, that a use is disallowed? Are animals addressed at all? Or pets?

    There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with you contacting the Township Lawyer directly. Government employees work FOR the citizens.

    In fact, I suggest that your lawyer send him/her a certified letter requesting the specific language and portions of the ordinance that they believe you to be violating, and their reasoning. With WRITTEN communication in hand you can more specifically address the issues presented, and as you rebut them, side issues are less likely to arise. You will also bypass, at least initially, the public circus that the last hearing became. You will have plenty of time to present your case without irrelevancies. Chances are it will end up in a court of law, which you have already said is what you want. The written communication becomes evidence of your dealings with the city.

    How many of your nearby neighbors have expressed an opinion on your chickens? How many have chosen to not express an opinion, and can you sway them to sign a supportive petition?
     
  7. Holly O

    Holly O Songster

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    I have read the whole document and their is nothing in it about pets allowed or disallowed in Residential zoned area.
    It doesn't say that unless specifically mentioned as an allowed use, that a use is disallowed?
    "accessory use Is permitted by right" is stated

    We have an agricultural zoned area in our township. but it only states:

    USES PERMITTED BY RIGHT
    agricultural, horticulture, animal husbandry, forestry, stables, kennels, hatcheries, greenhouses/nurseries, public/private recreational facilities, parks/gamelands, single family dwelling, two family dwelling, accessory use.

    As to neighbors ... both sides of me have decided they do not want me to have chicken's and I believe Marry Lou started a petition and has approx 3 names. I have talked to several that do not care one way or the other, and a couple that support me.

    We have a boro with in our township borders with their own ordinances and They are allowed Chickens ducks EXT.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2009
  8. Holly O

    Holly O Songster

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    Bergen Norway
    I did make a BOO BOO in my eyes yesterday.

    When talking to the neighbor. She said
    "I can not live with chickens and ducks next door it is not a farm."

    I responded by saying
    " I do not want to live nest door to a B**** but I guess I get to!"

    I'm still giggling ... But it is out of character for me to say it out loud.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2009
  9. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    Tempe, Arizona
    Quote:This is for the agriculturally zoned area? Does it list a similar section for the residential area? If so, what does it say?

    .... We have a boro with in our township borders with their own ordinances and They are allowed Chickens ducks EXT.

    What exactly does their ordinance state? Generally a subordinate government entity can be STRICTER (allowing fewer rights) than the higher level of government, but the subordinate level cannot be less strict and grant rights denied by the higher level.

    For example, if your state, as do many, disallows the owning of wild animals, your city cannot ignore that and allow them. Therefore, if the boro legally allows chickens, it can be accepted that the township does not disallow them. If your township disallows them, then the boro cannot legally allow them. (And thus you may have found yourself a number of allies)

    I personally am not that conversant with the terms township and boro. I am used to state, county and city/town. I get the impression that a township is a division of the county, and a boro a division of the township?​
     
  10. allison finch

    allison finch Songster

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    You may be your own worst enemy in this fight.

    You have a lot to lose if it doesn't go your way. It serves no purpose to deliberately alienate the ones you must appease. Calling your neighbor that (even if you believe it to be too true) serves to only make her more vehement. Have you ever offered her some fresh eggs? I have an iffy neighbor and I bend over backwards to keep him on reasonable terms. As soon as my hens start laying, you can bet your coop he will get a bunch of them.
     

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