Ok I'm going to go on a little rant here. Has to do with breeders.

[seedcorn]

It's one thing to tell buyers what lines may be in your stock, that's being honest.

Anyone that tries to buy a line that Breeder A has built up but do it from someone else, then it's buyer beware.

If you started w/breeder A's birds, 2 years later you will see differences between them.

 

[Dipsy Doodle Doo]

Hi! I bring this up just because it's darn funny.
An individual was selling and touting "TRUE AMERAUCANA" and I asked what made them true.
That individual is not offering Ameraucana anymore. I think they found their 'true' birds were lousy specimens.

Lisa

 

[jywel417]

Quote:
This is very true of the dog world, especially of AKC. I don't breed dobermans but have considered doing limited breeding later in my life because all my rescue kids have easily avoidable health issues that most of the top conformation breeders ignore because it "isn't really a true concern to the health of the dog", mind you they test for it but ignore test results. Anyway, off subject there, sorry. But I looked up the information on the AKC website about getting a registered kennel name and it was my understanding that they will not let you register a kennel name until you have bred 5 litters. Also like Loup said if I were to breed, oh i don't know, a Philmar doberman to one of my lines then I would advertise that they are Philmar lines on the sire's side and Arrabesque dobermans on the dams side IF the dam was a dog I had bred, otherwise I would mention the kennel name/line that the mother came from. I am new to chickens so I don't know how it is supposed to work but if I was breeding chickens I would advertise just like I would for a litter of puppies and if I learned that was not the correct way then I would change the way I advertise.

 

[NYREDS]

Regardless of what lines he claims to have he illustrated the auction with a not very good Silkie. That should be information enough.

 

[speckledhen]

Quote:
I agree with this statement. A picture is worth 1000 words. Enough to base a "buy or not buy" decision on.

 

[jywel417]

Quote:
This may sound nastier than I mean it to but have you ever been to a dog show or thought about breeding dogs Strawberry? Unfortunately the majority of people breeding are what we call "back yard breeders" who may say they are breeding to better the breed but in fact are just throwing two dogs they have from other people who didn't know what they were doing to breed puppies for a quick dollar. . . . if you are short on money and can throw 2 dogs in together, wait 60 days, get 5-10 puppies and sell them for upwards of $500 a piece, well the fast money would be tempting to anyone. HOWEVER REAL breeders of dogs, and horses too I would imagine, are breeding to meet the breed standard, so if you have a line of dogs you have been tweaking to meet breed standard for 10 or more years then just go get some random dog your neighbor bred and breed your top conformation male to your neighbors grump because it is convenient you have then ruined that particular line of dogs from that point on. So I disagree with you GREATLY on the fact that birds are that much different from breeding dogs, sorry, imo there isn't that much difference. Chicken breeds have standards they are to try and meet for shows, so do dogs. . . . in a dog show each dog is to be judged against its own breed standard and the dog that best meets it's standard therefore wins the show, you aren't judging a doberman against a standard poodle and the poodle wins because it is a flashier dog, they have to be the CLOSEST to their standard to beat other dogs.

 

[jywel417]

Quote:
Okay, let me start by saying I do understand your frustration at the man on eggbid but this seems to have morphed into a totally different conversation, and it seems to me that you totally contradict yourself in the above quote. You state that with silkies knowing the lines they come from is not necessary because you buy birds that you like what you see. . .but then you go onto say that a breeder's work should not be messed up by someone else in greed and stupidity. Well, if you aren't buying because of breeder names and are just buying because you like what you see in a certain bird then what do breeders names matter by this logic?

Another thing I will state, and i'm sorry if I don't think that birds and dogs are that different in this aspect because genetics are genetics, but I have a couple of BEAUTIFUL dobermans that are VERY close to breed standards that are rescues from a "breeder" in my area whose dogs do not meet standard and she also breeds albinistic (aka "white") dobermans because she can get $1000 plus out of these genetic nightmares (ask amazondoc about white dobermans, I just realized I knew here from the Oak Ridge Kennel Club and she is one of my heroes in the world of the doberman, has a WONDERFUL site on the albino doberman) anyways, the parents of my dogs are NOT close to breed standard. We have a litter of pups we took from this lady and while one of my dogs from that rescued litter is also close to breed standard, the other 6 from the litter are NOT even close. I would also be willing to bet if my girls weren't spayed that if you bred them you would be hard pressed getting another dog close to standard considering their lines, etc. These dobermans from this rescued litter range in weight anywhere from 48 lbs (our smallest female) to 80 lbs (our largest male) and height at the withers is all over the place and Doberman breed standard has weights and heights that dogs and grump should be in order to be meeting the standard.

My point here is that yes, if I am at a bird show and buy a bird because I like the way it looks my chances of getting more birds that look like it when I have no clue of its lines or parentage is stupid if I am wanting to breed it to reproduce more birds. I'm sorry, give me a bird from proven lines ANYDAY even if it is off of breed standard a little, if it is from proven lines it is going to be more likely to reproduce birds closer to standard than a bird who may look perfect but I have no clue on the history of . . . .

And another thing is buying birds from eggbid.com seems to me like buying a dog out of a newspaper, its easy to do, you can find all sorts of breeds there, and anyone in the dog world can say their dog/puppies/grump have champion bloodlines but that does not mean they are reproducing said champion bloodlines. You just have to get to where you ignore the stupid people out there like that and not let them get to you. As long as there are people who will buy from them they will sell that way. If you really want true quality birds then buy from a reputable breeder and the only way to really know you are getting offspring from the breeding pair you want would be to witness the breeding, witness the laying, and take your eggs from there, unfortunately people lie (purposefully or not) and this would be much easier to do with eggs than puppies . . . if you sell someone a batch of eggs that are supposed to be, idk orpingtons they have to wait until they hatch to realize they are rhode island reds, where as if someone wants to buy a doberman from you and when they come to pick up the dog you try and give them a terrier they are going to know right away. Most reputable dog breeders I know will NOT advertise in newspapers or similar places and they usually have a waiting list for puppies before they ever breed.

Just another example of stupid people who will buy whatever on sites like eggbid.com because of expensive prices etc, we had a man come into the vet I work at one day and said he wanted to buy his wife a golden retriever puppy and he didn't care about cost so how should he go about doing it? I sat down with him for about 45 minutes and we found reputable breeders that bred AKC goldens, had them health tested, had proven champion bloodlines that had been true to standard for generations, had puppies on the ground or on the way, etc etc etc. Before he leaves he says he doesn't care about any of that health testing crap, he just wants to make sure he is getting a good dog which is why he will pay so much. Next thing I know this man has gone to the newspaper and bought a golden puppy that he paid $1500 for, puppy was NOTHING like a golden should look, parents had no health testing, etc etc etc. He wanted to throw his money away and to him getting a puppy out of the paper for $1500 HAD to be a better dog than getting one of the ones from near by show breeders who had proven dogs, health tested dogs, etc that were selling pet quality puppies for $500-750 or show quality for $1000 to $1500

Once again, just my opinion. . . and god bless whoever in BYC forum made the spell check option, when I get to ranting like this spell check is a LIFESAVER for me because the more worked up I get, the faster I type and the more my spelling goes to heck

 

[Black Feather]

I personally don't have a whole lot of issues with the add. It states the bloodlines of the birds and is not making show quality guarantees. I'd be more concerned if they were advertising show quality birds from an obviously unestablished line.

If I was ever going to go looking for new blood to add to my flock I would want to know where the originating 'breeders' of a particular flock came from. At least I may them have a faint idea what I would be getting into by getting a new bird. Also, when you have an idea of the bloodlines you also get a slight idea of where the strengths and weaknesses of a line may be.

UC

 

[jywel417]

Quote:
Amen cgmccary !! I do not agree with just breeding to be breeding dogs, we are already overrun with too many dogs and I am definitely NOT on this dang "doodle" train where people are breeding any two purebred dogs to create "hypoallergenic" or "designer" dogs then charge $1000 plus for mutts (sorry if I am offending anyone here, just my opinion here and working with these "designer dogs" at the vet, 90% of them get the WORST genes from both sides and tend to have UNSTABLE temperments) I do have to say tho that IF you have no other way to feed your children and you breed your female dog to sell the puppies (while this may end up costing you MUCH more money in the long run) as much as I love my girls you have to feed children first. At the moment I live by myself, just me the dobes, cat, chickens, and mouse. On weeks when money is tighter I might be eating ramen noodles that are 10 cents a package or pasta, rice, or beans, or anything canned I have in the house but you can bet all my animals have PLENTY of their food they eat. Now when my boyfriend and I get married and I am then living with him and his son, well, then it is different because while it is just me my girls are my children and my boyfriend knows this but I can't neglect a child's nutrition, etc because I feel my dogs are more important than them. In bad economic times while it may be considered unethical by some people to be breeding more it is a way to put food on the table that isn't doing anything illegal.

 

[HatTrickSilkies]

There is a difference between a breeder and a pimp. It is up to the buyer to determine that. Unfortunately chickens are not like dogs and other pedigreed and registrable animals so a buyer depends solely on the word of the seller. Dishonesty and misleading tactics are deplorable in any economic times, it works both ways.

~ Nikki