Old and Rare Breeds

[Hangtown Farms]

i 100% agree with you on that... unfortunately allot of ppl breed this way and then sell tons of hatching eggs and that is besides the hatchery's u mentioned... i called McMurry a few years ago and got a really knowledgeable person on the phone... they use flock matings of up to 500 Birds at one time

no wonder they have the quality that they do...

wow 500 birds

 

[cgmccary]

Quote:


I have hatched two sets of La Fleche so far and no chick has gotten sick, went down or anything -- they appear to be very healthy and hardy. Both sets of chicks are already in the barn pens (hatched January 1 and January 17) & fully feathered. They have now gotten to be less flighty running over when I come in with feed. None of my adult La Fleche ( now 6) have shown nothing but hardiness & are very active. I did cull one of my La Fleche Cocks because he was as mean as h ____. He'd even try to attack me through the wire of his pen and cage. When I was stooped changing the waterer, he hit me right in the face and almost got my eyes, cutting my face -- I said, "that's it," and why he is now in my freezer. I used him for breeding on one of the set of chicks (I figured I needed his genetics.). I have used mean roosters in the past one time only and had very little problem thereafter culling to get nice roosters ( I never get a mean Buckeye anymore; they are all gentle giants). The other two La Fleche males I have are very mild mannered. I have also turned out free range my La Fleche hens and found them to be rather tame. Like my Buckeyes, they run to me & follow me around. I can't just pick them up as easily as I can most of my Buckeyes, that's all. They go in one of the large coops at night to roost with Buckeye hens. They are also NOT agressive with my Buckeye hens getting along with them just fine. My La Fleche are extremely underweight too although I think they have correct body proportions & angles, otherwise for their size . I do love their elegance, love looking at them & I notice the hens forage all over the place and seem to do well free ranging. I plan to turn the chicks out free range as the weather gets nicer and let them grow up foraging.

I have been told that if you add Minorca blood, you will have a difficult time correcting the comb. I do not plan to add any Minorca blood or anything else. I have ordered some Sandhill La Fleche chicks, hopefully to arrive at the end of April & want to cross them into the Urch strain La Fleche. Mr. Urch told me that he had not crossed anything into his La Fleche since he'd had them (late 1960s). With Sandhill, you can only order 15 La Fleche chicks, and you have to order a minimum of 25 chicks so I had to get a filler breed. Since I only have Buckeyes and La Fleche, I filled the other 10 with Buckeyes and thought I could just cull if I did not like (if I liked, then work them intelligently into my Buckeye flock). However, Sandhill notified me that my order would be severely delayed because there was a backlog on Buckeye chick orders. I emailed them and told them I was just ordering the Buckeye chicks as filler and really just wanted La Fleche chicks. They let me select another breed to fill out the order. I looked around for something not so back-ordered and just said send me 10 Crevecoeur chicks. I do not plan to breed them as I do not have the room to concentrate on 3 breeds- two are hard enough for me to do justice so I will grow up to either eat them or sell them. The hens can go in my layer flock for eggs if need be.

 

[cgmccary]

I think I am confused on what breeding to the Standard means...Saladin, cubakid, and Walt seem to be the experts here if we could get a definition form each maybe that would help


I would think breeding to the Standard would mean, mating the 2 birds most like the Standard in the breeding pen
Using a bird not of the Standard in the breeding pen, doesn't seem like that would be called Breeding to the Standard.............. If Y'al could help us beginners please

"Breeding to the Standard" means breeding to the American Poultry Association's (APA's) Standard of Perfection (SOP), a book that contains written descriptions of all the APA accepted breeds (and pictures though the written description governs). No bird is SOP perfect. Sometimes, one keeps a bird for a particular trait that the bird is strong on which the breeder needs badly to improve though it may be deficient in other traits. For me, I might breed that bird one time, and I do not breed it to another bird with the same deficient trait(s) (this is what I was taught) [Edited to add: I also do not keep any offspring with same deficient trait(s).]

Again, no bird is perfect. Some other breeders have told me they work on all traits all the time. I find I cannot do this. I try to improve one or two things at a time with an eye not to let something slip and go wrong with a trait I have under control -- the difficult part. I am a beginner too and still learning (and always will be learning).

Chris McCary

 

[heritagehabitatfarms]

!!!

As someone who has only bred dogs in the past, will breed my first chickens next year using the better quality birds I get and raise this year, I would offer this:

To the best of my knowledge, in dogs and presumably in chickens, there has never been a perfect one. "Breeding to the Standard" means you are always reaching toward that perfect bird using, absolutely, those which most closely represent it from your breeding pens - but - since none is perfect, you don't necessarily just take the two closest and mate them, you evaluate how they fall short of perfection and select mates which have the potential to offset those shortcomings.

In double mating, as I understand it anyway, with certain breeds as previously mentioned such as Barred Rocks, when you take two well-marked birds in a single mating, you may find yourself with smutty-marked offspring rather than nice clean barring. One is therefore using mates that will produce chicks closer to the Standard.

We are not working from, but to (toward), the Standard.

My two cents. I shall now return to lurk-and-read status

 

[cubakid]

One is therefore using mates that will produce chicks closer to the Standard.

Exactly this.

If double mating is necessary to the improvement of birds towards the Standard description, then you are breeding the birds that will produce a bird closer to the standard. If you don't have to then single mate. It is an option, but sometimes for showing not the best (like BBRed OEGB, you would probably need two seperate lines to get good males, and females without shafting)

 

[BKPUCKETT]

Exactly this.

If double mating is necessary to the improvement of birds towards the Standard description, then you are breeding the birds that will produce a bird closer to the standard. If you don't have to then single mate. It is an option, but sometimes for showing not the best (like BBRed OEGB, you would probably need two seperate lines to get good males, and females without shafting)

You used BBRed OEGB as an example. Is it possible to get top quality males and females single matting?

 

[heritagehabitatfarms]

yes but u are going to get way more culls... and it is still best to chose the best males and females to breed together... so even if u don't breed 2 lines of birds you can still pick the best ones from your flock to breed together for males and females just have 2 breeding pens instead of one...

You used BBRed OEGB as an example. Is it possible to get top quality males and females single matting?

 

[saladin]

Some important things to remember when breeding birds:

1. Good breeder birds may not be good show birds (and vice versa).
2. There's more to it than just a 'male line' or 'female line.' There are also birds that show well as stags/pullets and other lines that only show well as cocks/hens; still others that are fine either way.
3. The real key to quality lines means hatching in quanity. (There are lots of folks on BYC that do not agree with this. They are simply WRONG; no ifs, ands or buts about it. There are plenty of things in which there are varied opinions. This is NOT one of them).
4. You have to learn your line to really learn how to cull properly. This takes time. Always cull with the Standard in hand, but time and knowing a line helps as much as anything.

More comments on #3.
I am absolutely amazed at how many people get offended and upset when you mention this on this particular form. I've never understand why people get upset with the truth. It is just beyond me.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

....
3. The real key to quality lines means hatching in quanity. (There are lots of folks on BYC that do not agree with this. They are simply WRONG; no ifs, ands or buts about it. There are plenty of things in which there are varied opinions. This is NOT one of them).
...
More comments on #3.
I am absolutely amazed at how many people get offended and upset when you mention this on this particular form. I've never understand why people get upset with the truth. It is just beyond me.

Truer words were never spoken. It's impossible to make any progress without lots of birds to choose from and keep only the best given the traits you're protecting.
After all, chicken is delicious.

 

[fowlman01]

Some important things to remember when breeding birds:

1. Good breeder birds may not be good show birds (and vice versa).
2. There's more to it than just a 'male line' or 'female line.' There are also birds that show well as stags/pullets and other lines that only show well as cocks/hens; still others that are fine either way.
3. The real key to quality lines means hatching in quanity. (There are lots of folks on BYC that do not agree with this. They are simply WRONG; no ifs, ands or buts about it. There are plenty of things in which there are varied opinions. This is NOT one of them).
4. You have to learn your line to really learn how to cull properly. This takes time. Always cull with the Standard in hand, but time and knowing a line helps as much as anything.

More comments on #3.
I am absolutely amazed at how many people get offended and upset when you mention this on this particular form. I've never understand why people get upset with the truth. It is just beyond me.

I don't get it either.

Culling is a very important part of breeding. If you don't know what to cull, you are never going to excel at it.

Walt