Old and Rare Breeds

[flyingmonkeypoop]

I know many breeds would be out because so many people think bigger is better. We have some faverolles, a hatchery flock and a show line flock. To me, the hatchery style rooster looks much better than the other rooster. He has the desired type and is about 1/2 lb under standard weight. The show line rooster is only 6 months old and is already about 12 lbs and isn't filled out yet, still very leggy and awkward looking. When I go to any show and see the LF faverolles, they are always bigger than my buckeyes but when you ask any breeder, they respond with "Well, it's what the judges are placing". With some bantam breeds, people always breed them too big in my opinion. Like bantam cochins. I have seen some bantam cochins that are as large as my wyandotte hens, when you pick them up they are heavy birds. I know when I have shown on the coast, there are many, many birds that look over the standard weight and when someone mentions weighing them, everyone goes into a frenzy.

Sorry about my rant there, this is one of the things that bugs me

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Rant away! I would be a strong supporter of scales at shows. It would keep the other bantam problem, i.e., too small, from happening and destroying their reproductive potential.

 

[Pozees]

I hope this is not an inappropriate question - last night I spotted Pumpkin Hulsey Game hatching eggs on ebay; by any chance is the seller someone here? If so, would you please PM me? I am interested but would like more information about them. The pics are of nice birds, I think, and I would like more information about raising and breeding them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281057752774?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

If this is not someone here, but someone here has some eggs he or she is willing to ship to CO, I would like to hear about those as well. I need more information before I commit, but the rooster in the ad is certainly striking, to my untrained eye anyway.

 

[saladin]

I'm totally FOR SCALES at shows. The Sumatras they are showing now are just huge.... way over the Standard I can guarantee it. They are suppose to be 5 lbs. I show Cubalayas that are 6 lbs (Standard weight) and they are dwarfed by the Sumatras.
The worse part is a great majority of the judges will place those Sumatras and make ridiculous comments like, 'Best Sumatra I've ever seen.' How can it be the best when it needs to be DQed!!!!!!!!!

 

[ramirezframing]

I have wondered on this as mine do look small compared to alot of other LF sumatra pictures I see. I don't show and the kids broke the scale so I don't know how big mine are but mine look stream line ...almost like a speed boat compared to alot of others

I know mine are good quality because of who I got them from

 

[catdaddyfro]

I'm totally FOR SCALES at shows. The Sumatras they are showing now are just huge.... way over the Standard I can guarantee it. They are suppose to be 5 lbs. I show Cubalayas that are 6 lbs (Standard weight) and they are dwarfed by the Sumatras.
The worse part is a great majority of the judges will place those Sumatras and make ridiculous comments like, 'Best Sumatra I've ever seen.' How can it be the best when it needs to be DQed!!!!!!!!!

12lb White Rocks that fill the cage up completely too or should I say White Giants er um this is another reason for a standard of weights and measurements(SOP) there should be a difference betwixt a Rock and an Orpington besides white and yellow shanks being a deciding factor. Now, about the judges pushing this bigger is better, I do believe this to be true. There is a project over to the showbird site I have read about on Plymouth rocks where they have crossed in Cobb Vantress "broilerXs"/CornishxRock stock into these lines to improve TYPE(my @$$) on these lines of Plymouth Rocks. It is simply(IMO) to get them forevermore bigger than "ol Joe 's" over there. This too is some of our"distinguished judges"(or at least they started it and have since farmed the offspring out) at work too on this said "PROJECT" LOL

 

[saladin]

Not all judges are equal.

This is why I tell people, 'Stay away from fades and stay with the Standard.'

Will you always win? Of course not, but in the long run you'll be much better.

 

[catdaddyfro]

Not all judges are equal.

This is why I tell people, 'Stay away from fades and stay with the Standard.'

Will you always win? Of course not, but in the long run you'll be much better.

Your right I edited my phrase.

One judge said the bigger is better fad will absolve itself when the legs go out from under these "rocks" it will come full circle when/how long? IDK but yes just go by what is right and good and "all will come out in the wash eventually"

Jeff

 

[fowlman01]

The weighing debate has been around for 50 years that I know of.......I'm not sure if it will ever be changed. Talking about it here won't get it done. It is not so much a weighing problem, than it is a judging problem. Most judges know when a bird is overweight/underweight. Things can be changed, but it needs exhibitors complaining in Poultry Press and other venues.....hardly any judges come to BYC.

Most of the big Cochin bantams you see just look big......most are just feathers. The SOP addresses the weight, not the physical size of the bird. looks can sometimes be deceiving. If you see a giant large white Rock it is probably overweight.

I agree that the weights should be used, but it is a judging issue, not a SOP issue. The only way to change it is to campaign the ABA/APA judges sections. There has never been a serious attempt to change this judging practice.

Walt

 

[gjensen]

I am troubled by any breed of any species that is of the useful sort, but is raised exclusively for the show ring. Whether it is dogs, livestock etc. I don't want to get away from what they were meant to be. Most breeds of poultry were farm fowl. Often they were an improvement over their predecessors, or fit a style of management better.

I am all for change when that change is an improvement. When the "improvement" is in conflict with the animal's usefulness, you lose me.
Being over sized and with excessive feather takes away from the animal's usefulness. Too small, too big. . . both are a problem. A problem.

I am all for showing. Breeders for the show ring have done as much to preserve some of these breeds and their breed character as any. I just believe it is helpful to remember what the birds are supposed to be, and what niche they are intended to occupy. The ability to perform as they should does matter. To me anyways. A German Shepard that does not or cannot work might as well be a mutt, without the vigor.

A Plymouth Rock male should be a big bird. At 9.5 lbs they are not small. At 12lbs, they are not particularly athletic. They are pretty lazy and clumsy. A New Hampshire that is excessively feathered does not have any real weight until much older. Pick them up at 12-14 wks and they are all feather and bone even though they look like something. A lot of protein is wasted in the development and maintenance of all the extra feather. Though they both look good, they are not as useful.

A game breed should be game. A layer should lay. A meat breed should flesh out well. A dual purpose breed should put extra cockerels on the table, and hens in the pot. In the mean time the hens should be pretty good layers. Ornamentals are ornamentals.

If the SOP is the most useful type, then the scales should be pulled out. The size and weight of the birds is huge when it comes to their usefulness. Excessive feathering is not the most useful type.