Old and Rare Breeds

[buffalogal]

Quote:
From Mr. Voter's article:
"Merriam Webster Dictionary lists Dominican as originating around 1534 and defines the word as “a member of a mendicant order of friars founded by Saint Dominic in 1215 and dedicated especially to preaching.” In medieval England, the Dominicans, dressed in a white tunic and scapular with a large black cloak and hood." and concludes with:
"Still, the question remains: “Why Dominique”? All things considered, Mr. John Robinson was probably correct when, around 1915, he wrote that the basis for the Dominique name was the similarity between the black and white barring and the garb of the Dominican brethren. "

I realize that once something has been written people tend to repeat it over and over until it's accepted as fact, but when I look at a Dominican Monk I see a Lakenvelder, not a Dominique.

Oh, and regarding the word Dominique and whatever colors and varieties it gets tacked onto, I'll say again that nothing gamebird breeders do or say surprises me.

 

[Chris09]

buffalogal,
It may have to do with the Dominica pit-game fowl.

dominiquechicken.com :

William C. Denny in Standard-Bred Plymouth Rocks (1911) went to great lengths to explain the difference in origin of the Dominica pit-game and the American Dominique. He theorized that any or all barred fowl became known as Dominicans or Dominiques due to the similarity in color to the barred pit games from Dominica.

It could also be that a breeder by the Dominique (a French boy name) who may have bred a barred chicken and the name stuck to all barred breeds at the time.

It would be hard to say just why the title Dominique was given to barred type fowl but it has/was and I believe that is the reason for American in front of the U.S. Dominique breed.
It is also stated in the SoP that a Dominique fowl was used in the breeding of the Plymouth Rock but it notes that it wasn't the American Dominique but a, "Single Combed hawk-colored fowl commonly found in that locality".
The use of the title Dominique was in or for a breed name has been used before the time of the American Dominique.

Chris​

 

[saladin]

Quote:
centra,
I hear what you are saying. However, my experience is that if too few birds are hatched the result will be that the birds become smaller with each passing generation until they reach a plateau hence degenerate. (Bantams will become larger). There is always a move toward mediocrity.

I consistently have people come back year after year after year purchasing birds. All I can say is that most of the folks I've met in this world can ruin the best line in 3 years (3 generations). Breeding never seemed hard to me, but it is undoubtedly difficult for many people.

 

[Chris09]

Older picture of a Lamona hen.

Chris

 

[saladin]

Quote:
It could also be that a breeder by the Dominique (a French boy name) who may have bred a barred chicken and the name stuck to all barred breeds at the time.

It would be hard to say just why the title Dominique was given to barred type fowl but it has/was and I believe that is the reason for American in front of the U.S. Dominique breed.
It is also stated in the SoP that a Dominique fowl was used in the breeding of the Plymouth Rock but it notes that it wasn't the American Dominique but a, "Single Combed hawk-colored fowl commonly found in that locality".
The use of the title Dominique was in or for a breed name has been used before the time of the American Dominique.

Chris

I don't know a thing about Dominickers; nor do I plan to ever keep any. I do know about Games and the people who keep them.

Back in the day, anything that wasn't game was a dunghill to a Game-breeder. It makes absolutely no sense to me that Game-breeders would have ever adopted a dunghill breed name as one of the color names. Old time Game-breeders all possessed one common trait in relation to any breed of chicken that wasn't game: Arrogance. They truly looked down their noses at all 'barn-door' breeds of fowl: hence the term 'dunghill.'

The oldest American Gamefowl books/articles that I own are more than 120 years old and they all refer to Dom colored Games. I will check with others that might have older material to see how early we can trace the name among cockers.

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
centra,
I hear what you are saying. However, my experience is that if too few birds are hatched the result will be that the birds become smaller with each passing generation until they reach a plateau hence degenerate. (Bantams will become larger). There is always a move toward mediocrity.

I consistently have people come back year after year after year purchasing birds. All I can say is that most of the folks I've met in this world can ruin the best line in 3 years (3 generations). Breeding never seemed hard to me, but it is undoubtedly difficult for many people.

Saladin,

My guess is those having breeding problems have too few breeders in their flocks. Increased numbers of breeding birds and increased numbers of offspring to select from helps which think you have well in hand. Something that would help folks with smaller numbers of breeders is ensuring more mating combinations are realized per breeding season which might be difficult with breeds like Assils with such low reproductive output. Increasing mating combinations and keeping number of chicks for evaluations high are my aces in the whole. Yes, some people do not have eye for selection which is often acquired through trial and lots of error, especially with breeds they are new to.

 

[buffalogal]

Quote:
I could almost go with that Dominican pit game barred chicken theory, except well, being a native Virginian, I think I'm going to stick with the "Old Dominion" story.

I don't write "American Dominique" simply because to me, these cuckoo barred, yellow legged, rose combed birds are "The Dominique".

 

[saladin]

Quote:
I could almost go with that Dominican pit game barred chicken theory, except well, being a native Virginian, I think I'm going to stick with the "Old Dominion" story.

I don't write "American Dominique" simply because to me, these cuckoo barred, yellow legged, rose combed birds are "The Dominique".

I have a first edition of Browne's 'The American Poultry Yard' (1850). He states the Dominque was breed that was seen in and around the New York markets: no mention of where the name originated or of Virginia.

lol. Virginia in 1850 would have had one breed of fowl: Games!

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
It could also be that a breeder by the Dominique (a French boy name) who may have bred a barred chicken and the name stuck to all barred breeds at the time.

It would be hard to say just why the title Dominique was given to barred type fowl but it has/was and I believe that is the reason for American in front of the U.S. Dominique breed.
It is also stated in the SoP that a Dominique fowl was used in the breeding of the Plymouth Rock but it notes that it wasn't the American Dominique but a, "Single Combed hawk-colored fowl commonly found in that locality".
The use of the title Dominique was in or for a breed name has been used before the time of the American Dominique.

Chris

I don't know a thing about Dominickers; nor do I plan to ever keep any. I do know about Games and the people who keep them.

Back in the day, anything that wasn't game was a dunghill to a Game-breeder. It makes absolutely no sense to me that Game-breeders would have ever adopted a dunghill breed name as one of the color names. Old time Game-breeders all possessed one common trait in relation to any breed of chicken that wasn't game: Arrogance. They truly looked down their noses at all 'barn-door' breeds of fowl: hence the term 'dunghill.'

The oldest American Gamefowl books/articles that I own are more than 120 years old and they all refer to Dom colored Games. I will check with others that might have older material to see how early we can trace the name among cockers.

In my neck of the woods, we referred to free-ranged games as dunghills as well. Had nothing to do with anything other than rearing method which lacked control if parentage in respect to hen was desired to be known. It was a cheap way to make numbers. If genetic background was similar, then you could not tell dunghill from yard reared birds based on gameness.

 

[saladin]

Quote:
I don't know a thing about Dominickers; nor do I plan to ever keep any. I do know about Games and the people who keep them.

Back in the day, anything that wasn't game was a dunghill to a Game-breeder. It makes absolutely no sense to me that Game-breeders would have ever adopted a dunghill breed name as one of the color names. Old time Game-breeders all possessed one common trait in relation to any breed of chicken that wasn't game: Arrogance. They truly looked down their noses at all 'barn-door' breeds of fowl: hence the term 'dunghill.'

The oldest American Gamefowl books/articles that I own are more than 120 years old and they all refer to Dom colored Games. I will check with others that might have older material to see how early we can trace the name among cockers.

In my neck of the woods, we referred to free-ranged games as dunghills as well. Had nothing to do with anything other than rearing method which lacked control if parentage in respect to hen was desired to be known. It was a cheap way to make numbers. If genetic background was similar, then you could not tell dunghill from yard reared birds based on gameness.

My folks used dunghill in a similar way centra. Any supposed Game variety that was no longer game was/is a dunghill.