On the mend, but still questions: UPDATE, 20 week old banty wormy as heck,

[lalaland]

Kathy, I get that if she doesn't get more nutrition she will not make it. I don't understand, however, why she isn't eating. Are you seeing chickens this severely ill who recover because of tube feeding? I mean, live more than a couple more months? I am thinking something is wrong with her internally, maybe enteritus of some kind.

I don't know if there is some kind of trigger that gets pulled if you tube feed - does it bring back the chicken's desire to eat? or just prolong life as long as you tube feed?

I appreciate your help, this is new territory for me and I am second guessing whether I am putting her through all this for much chance at a good outcome.

 

[delisha]

I must sound like a broken record by now, but if she's not eating, she need to be tube fed.

• https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...cken-and-give-subcutaneous-fluid#post_9910754
• https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...-for-visuals-very-detailed-post#post_11652991

-Kathy

do not be afraid..
I am glad you weighed her. Tomorrow if she is less weight..make a decision. You can't let her progress further down hill. If she gained weight..you are doing the right things.

Tube feeding is pretty easy and it sounds scarey, but it is not at all. You only need to tube her once a day and you will feel better knowing she has nutrition while you are at work. I can tube feed myself and so can you. I think you should try it. Not just for this bird, but for any other bird that tube feeding might become necessary. Even if she is too far gone to be saved ....you will have gained knowledge and experience.

 

[casportpony]

You're right, tubing just buys time, it's not a cure, but it can also be used as a diagnostic tool. For example, once properly hydrated and fed the stools should return to normal and if they don't, you might want to try an antibiotic like Clavamox or Baytril if the poop looks a certain way.

I'm not positive, so don't quote me on this, but I believe that many chickens die from e. Coli infections.

-Kathy

 

[Eggcessive]

Here are 2 better links on necrotizing enteritis from C. Perfringens in poultry:
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/diseaseinfo/101/necrotic-enteritis
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/pou...verview_of_necrotic_enteritis_in_poultry.html

Interestly enough is that this illness may be caused by the pressence of coccidial or worm damage. I'm not saying this is what she has, but it is just interesting, and may be of help to someone else.

 

[delisha]

Your gut feeling might be right and she might have something more serious going on. I personally think she does. I am suggesting tube feeding for experience. Most for the next bird than for this one. I personally would have culled this bird a long time ago to see for myself with the heck was going on. But, you have kept her alive for a reason..if she can save a bird in the future for your hard work today..her life is not in vain if she should die. If she lives...you have experience to share with others.

 

[casportpony]

do not be afraid..
I am glad you weighed her. Tomorrow if she is less weight..make a decision. You can't let her progress further down hill. If she gained weight..you are doing the right things.

Tube feeding is pretty easy and it sounds scarey, but it is not at all. You only need to tube her once a day and you will feel better knowing she has nutrition while you are at work. I can tube feed myself and so can you. I think you should try it. Not just for this bird, but for any other bird that tube feeding might become necessary. Even if she is  too far gone to be saved ....you will have gained knowledge and experience.

Excellent advice!

-Kathy

 

[Eggcessive]

Kathy, I get that if she doesn't get more nutrition she will not make it. I don't understand, however, why she isn't eating. Are you seeing chickens this severely ill who recover because of tube feeding? I mean, live more than a couple more months? I am thinking something is wrong with her internally, maybe enteritus of some kind.

I don't know if there is some kind of trigger that gets pulled if you tube feed - does it bring back the chicken's desire to eat? or just prolong life as long as you tube feed?

I appreciate your help, this is new territory for me and I am second guessing whether I am putting her through all this for much chance at a good outcome.

I have never tube fed a chicken although I know how to do it to kids and babies, but it might help to keep her going while antibiotics/anti-coccidia drugs are used. This still may not save her. A different antibiotic such as penicillin, amoxicillin, erythromycin, tylan, or bacitracin may work better, than the Duramycin.

 

[delisha]

Here are 2 better links on necrotizing enteritis from C. Perfringens in poultry:
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/diseaseinfo/101/necrotic-enteritis
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/pou...verview_of_necrotic_enteritis_in_poultry.html

Interestly enough is that this illness may be caused by the pressence of coccidial or worm damage. I'm not saying this is what she has, but it is just interesting, and may be of help to someone else.

Education and additional information is good in all things. Thank you for the read.
both of these promote the use of antibiotics as a preventative and treatment. She has had her bird on antibiotics with no improvement in feed consumption. I doubt her problem is bacterial or cocci at this point. Those are possible results of the cause of the underlying problem.

IMO

 

[delisha]

Kathy, I get that if she doesn't get more nutrition she will not make it. I don't understand, however, why she isn't eating. Are you seeing chickens this severely ill who recover because of tube feeding? I mean, live more than a couple more months? I am thinking something is wrong with her internally, maybe enteritus of some kind.

I don't know if there is some kind of trigger that gets pulled if you tube feed - does it bring back the chicken's desire to eat? or just prolong life as long as you tube feed?

I appreciate your help, this is new territory for me and I am second guessing whether I am putting her through all this for much chance at a good outcome.

The tube feeding will give her added moisture she is not getting. She is starving..feeding her will make her feel better and she should start eating better in a few feedings. If she does not pick up her eating after tubing her a few times..reevaluate.

 

[Leahs Mom]

I also noticed that one of the things mentioned in the Merks article was lack of enzymes for digestion of some of their specified items. That's a GREAT promo for sprouting, soaking, or fermenting feed, which all release the digestive enzymes needed for the particular items which are bound by the anti-nutrients.

Now...the only reason I mention this is that most of us are on board with PREVENTION but not via the drug route. So the simple act of soaking, fermenting or sprouting can be a great preventative step to take.

But, of course, for this little one we're in the "treatment" stage. Not the prevention stage. (But the added enzymes in the above mentioned will help in the healing process too if things get stabilized.)


ETA: They also mentioned pro biotics as a treatment/prevention. If lacto-fermenting the feed (NOT alcohol fermentation that is practiced by some) you also get the benefits of the probiotics as well. And I mentioned it earlier, but I know lala has some probiotics around that she was planning on adding so that should be a good thing.