Ongoing bully/victim saga: new and not so improved with hen on hen mounting

[nminusyplusm]

I thought I had the bullying under control at this point with perches, places to hide, pinless peepers and multiple feed and water stations. They were all doing great. The victim has gained weight, feathers were growing back, is able to hang out with, eat next to and be a member of the flock and generally enjoys life. They are five, raised together, 1.5yrs old in a predator proof, well ventilated 4'x7' coop and 8'x10' run. The coop is always open to the run.

(Broody breaker is needed so often that it permanently lives on top of the folding hide out)

However, now she's losing feathers on her back due to being mounted by the bully (currently wearing peepers). I saw it yesterday and it was full on rooster behavior from a hen which I assume is a dominance thing. The victim willingly submits to it. There isn't pecking involved other than grabbing and holding on to her neck feathers. The others will chase her around a little after the commotion but then they all settle down until the next time it happens.

One huge part of this is that the victim goes broody all the d*** time. Every time she does the rest of the flock hates her and the bullying starts up again. I'm not allowed roosters or else I'd get one and let him handle it.

She even went broody while having a CRD flare up. She lost so much weight and looked so miserable at that time, part of me sort of hoped she wouldn't make it... but for better or worse, the Tylan worked and apart from the mounting damage to her back she looks better than she ever has.

If my flock didn't have CRD I'd rehome someone (probably broody victim so she could do her thing and raise some chicks) and it's really too hot here to make the victim live with an apron on. I don't have enough room to house two separate flocks.

What else could I try?

ETA: feed is Purina flock raiser 20% protein with oyster shell and grit separately, all free choice. No scratch. Treats are veg and fruit trimmings, BOSS and hard boiled egg no more than 10% of their diet. Deep litter in the coop and run with plenty of bugs for entertainment and extra protein.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Time out for the bully inside the broody breaker?

Think I would cull the hen that's mounting the other... but broody's sometimes feel like they are breaking me... So maybe I would cull the broody victim. In fact I might cull BOTH... Since rehoming isn't an option... letting them feed someone's pets or family might be. Hens are perfectly edible. While it no life for the victim, I won't support bully behavior either.

You might be able to hang some cabbage or broccoli or corn cob just out of reach so they have to jump for it. Might help occupy the mind and get a little of their energy out... You've handled other things already so sounds like it may be down to boredom or behavioral.

 

[nminusyplusm]

Time out for the bully inside the broody breaker?

I've tried that many times. Unfortunately it always reverts when the victim goes broody again.

Think I would cull the hen that's mounting the other... but broody's sometimes feel like they are breaking me... So maybe I would cull the broody victim. In fact I might cull BOTH... Since rehoming isn't an option... letting them feed someone's pets or family might be. Hens are perfectly edible. While it no life for the victim, I won't support bully behavior either.

You might be able to hand some cabbage or broccoli or corn cob just out of reach so they have to jump for it. Might help occupy the mind and get a little of their energy out... You've handled other things already so sounds like it may be down to boredom or behavioral.

I've tried interactive treats too (hanging cabbage, sunflower seed heads, etc) with the same results. There's something about her going broody that makes her a target all over again.

I've thought of culling and I may do that in the future if it gets so bad that victim isn't able to have a life or she's getting hurt. She does seem happy overall. I just wish she wouldn't squat for the bully. And although it doesn't seem fair, if I culled it would be the victim. The others really like each other and mostly don't go broody so keeping the peace based on flock dynamics means the victim would have to go. I'm not quite ready to take that step yet. I will though at the point I'm convinced it's the most humane thing to do.

Thank you for all the good advice, it definitely helps me with these decisions.

 

[Mrs. K]

The truth is your flock is upset. And watching the bullying is drastically reducing the pleasure of the flock for you. Some birds do not fit in a set up, in a particular flock. Always solve for the peace of the flock.

People pray for broody hens, I know, been there, done that. I would contact the feed store, the local poultry club, 4-h club... and find someone to take her.

She is the victim, but she does not fit, and she is ruining it for you. However, this is hard on the other birds too, that state of tension in a flock is not good for them either.

Mrs.K

 

[nminusyplusm]

The truth is your flock is upset. And watching the bullying is drastically reducing the pleasure of the flock for you. Some birds do not fit in a set up, in a particular flock. Always solve for the peace of the flock.

People pray for broody hens, I know, been there, done that. I would contact the feed store, the local poultry club, 4-h club... and find someone to take her.

She is the victim, but she does not fit, and she is ruining it for you. However, this is hard on the other birds too, that state of tension in a flock is not good for them either.

Mrs.K

I agree but she has CRD. I can't rehome her. I don't want someone else's flock to get infected. What other options are there? The others mostly don't seem to care though they will join in and remind her she's at the bottom at times. I think it's hardest on her but she's the opposite of depressed. She really looks like she enjoys life, at least for now. I feel like I can't justify culling a bird that isn't in pain, is able to indulge in all her instinctive behaviors, has companionship and is in good spirits, you know what I mean? I would definitely reassess should the situation change. If I see a reduction in quality of life I'd consider putting her on craigslist so a family could get a pretty measly dinner out of her but I'd have to warn people not to include her in a flock. In fact they shouldn't even have birds or else they'd risk the CRD spreading.

 

[aart]

Old drafter in me is confused by your dimensions.
Coop is same width as run, so the 7&8 don't match up.
Get a tape measure out...oh, never mind, it doesn't matter,
that's a really nice coop/run BTW.

So, disruptive birds......hard call.
I got rid of 2 disruptive birds this spring, one was a neurotic nest messer(continually tore up all the nests all day long, disrupting all the layers) and the other was a thin shell layer(another kind of nest mess). I tried numerous things over weeks and weeks to 'cure' both problems, but no luck long term. Things improved so much after their departure, and they were delicious.
I slaughter older hens each fall as part of my replacement layer program, so maybe I'm more used to making this decision, tho it still wasn't easy, but the constant troubles finally tripped the trigger and I was glad I got rid of those 2 birds.

Have a serial broody this summer, broke her 6 times since she hatched in March..she may be over it now <crossesfingers> but I have someone lined up who will take her if she persists.

 

[nminusyplusm]

Old drafter in me is confused by your dimensions.
Coop is same width as run, so the 7&8 don't match up.
Get a tape measure out...oh, never mind, it doesn't matter,
that's a really nice coop/run BTW.

Thanks! It's a non-Euclidean coop!
j/k
I should have mentioned 1' of coop is sectioned off externally accessible storage for built in 5 gal waterer and feeder and supplies. I was a set designer so as I wrote those dimensions I experienced a twinge about not accounting for that 1'. If someone else wrote those dimensions I'd be asking about it too

So, disruptive birds......hard call.
I got rid of 2 disruptive birds this spring, one was a neurotic nest messer(continually tore up all the nests all day long, disrupting all the layers) and the other was a thin shell layer(another kind of nest mess). I tried numerous things over weeks and weeks to 'cure' both problems, but no luck long term. Things improved so much after their departure, and they were delicious.
I slaughter older hens each fall as part of my replacement layer program, so maybe I'm more used to making this decision, tho it still wasn't easy, but the constant troubles finally tripped the trigger and I was glad I got rid of those 2 birds.

Have a serial broody this summer, broke her 6 times since she hatched in March..she may be over it now <crossesfingers> but I have someone lined up who will take her if she persists.

Yeah, I was really ready to give up on her a little while ago when she was in the breaker for close to 2 weeks while she was very sick but I was a coward. I was hoping that choice would be made for me and she might just not pull through.

And I just had to break her again, although it was a comparatively painless 2 days this time.

I know everyone advising me in this thread is right. It's unlikely to change for the better on its own. I need to address it.

Thanks, aart, Mrs. K and EggSighted4Life!

 

[aart]

Thanks! It's a non-Euclidean coop!
j/k
I should have mentioned 1' of coop is sectioned off externally accessible storage for built in 5 gal waterer and feeder and supplies. I was a set designer so as I wrote those dimensions I experienced a twinge about not accounting for that 1'. If someone else wrote those dimensions I'd be asking about it too

I had a feeling you'd 'get it'.

 

[nminusyplusm]

Is it completely irresponsible to first advertise her on Craigslist as a productive hen with CRD looking for a new home in a flock already carrying it? Or should I seal her fate and make sure she goes somewhere she becomes soup? I'd do it myself if I ate meat/chicken, though she's a wiry little thing, not much on her. I'm pretty sure most flocks have it or something worse around here because every person who's seen my flock comments that they look so healthy compared to the other chickens they've seen in my town.