Organic and Economy

[Bossroo]

Here in California, we have "No Burn Days", which in the last few years have been almost year round. There are Environmental Protection Agency cops running around and issuing multy hundred dollar tickets if they find smoke comming out of your chimney. So heating a home with a fire place, potbelly stove, or pellet stove is out of the question in the last few years. Our house is passive solar, 2 story and at 3039 sq. ft.... facing due South, most of the windows are on the S side. R-30 insulation in all of the walls and ceilings. All of the upstairs ceilings are vaulted to 18 ft, the upstairs family room is 24x 24 and double vaulted 12' on S side and 18' on N side with 3- 3x 6 windows at the peak. another over the stair case, and 2 more in the master bedroom ceiling fans in all rooms.Temps have been in the high 20's- low 30's at night and high 30's, low 40's to low 50's during the day. We have forced air hydronic heating system powered by propane to heat the water. 2 compressors for cooling. Our highest power bill was $320 in Aug when we had 3 weeks of over 100*( 1 week between 107* to 117*) , for air conditioning. We used 58 gals. of propane in Nov., 59 in Dec., and 44 in Jan. at $2.03 a gal. . Electric bill was $45 in Nov. , Dec. $57, $56 in Jan. In the last week of Jan. we have been opening up the 8'sliding glass doors ( opening onto decks) to cool down the house as it gets into the 80's in the afternoon.

 

[Amyable]

I just finished the book, "Seeds of Change", and it cited some interesting studies pertaining to the organic vs. conventional food debate.

From a 1991 article:

Hens given organically grown grain began laying at an earlier age, 166 days versus 181 days. The hens produced more eggs over nine months, 192 per hen versus 150 per hen, with a better keeping quality of 27 percent versus 60 percent spoilage after 6 months at room temperature.
-Linder, "A Review of the Evidence for Food Quality Differences."

Organic dairy herds were shown to produce a higher milk yield on a lower ration of concentrates. Both the fertility of animals and their overall state of health were significantly better when they were organically raised.
-The Living Earth, July/Sept 1988.

The data is a little dated, but I would assume recent studies would reflect silmilar results. I have not tested these findings, but thought they were of interest. It would seem that the increased cost of using organic feed could be offset by the increased yields and improved health of your herds.

Additionally, organic practices are sustainable, whereas conventional techniques are not. Humus-rich and full of microscopic life is what soil should be, while chemically-treated ground is just a sterile medium. For the long-term, it is more cost-efficient to work with the natural systems, than to work against them, IMO.

 

[Bossroo]

In 2004 the average production hen layed 299.88 eggs in a year. The Leghorn will have consumed 90 lbs. of feed , while a dual purpose hen will have consumed 110 lbs. of feed and layed fewer eggs. The average cow will consume 40 lbs of feed per day. To increase milk production requires more protein in the diet. Since the cow can eat only so much feed during a 6 hours spent on feeding and 8 hours in chewing her cud per day, one has to turn to more concentrated feed than a cow can derive from a top quality pasture... top quality alfalfa, corn, cottonseed meal, soybean meal, malt, and sillage, plus vitamins and minerals and salt and lots of clean water. The average Airshire will produce 14,430 lbs of milk with 3.85% butterfat during a 305 day lactation year. The Brown Swiss- 15,974 lbs. of milk with 4.4% butterfat. The Guernsey- 13,398lbs, 4.48%. Jersey- 13,396, 4,7%, Holstein-19,091, 3.66%. There are now several Holstein cows that have produced over 60,000 lbs of milk due to selective genetics and scientifically calculated feed formulations. In the last 10 years the number of dairy farms dropped by 46%, the dairy cow numbers have gone down by 9%, However, the milk production has increased by 8%. Selecting for better genetics plus, Artificial Insemination, much more intensive and specialized management and feed formulations and on the dairy farm resident Veterinary care leads to a healthier and more productive cow.

 

[patandchickens]

That's very nice but what does it have to do with organic farming.

Pat

 

[j.luetkemeyer]

I completely disagree that a cow producing 60,000 lbs of milk is healthy. I would also say the milk that cow produced lacks most of the nutrients it should contain. This is why there is so many health concerns with dairy products. It's not that dairy is bad for you. It is the modern crap being produced is bad for you. Milk can be very healthy if it comes from cows fed an organic/grassfed diet. We should start worrying about quality and quick worrying about quantity.

 

[Bossroo]

Last Sat. my wife baught 4 ( Cornish X )whole frier chickens 4-5 lbs each at a National chain grocery store for $0.79 a lb.. This was not a special or a promotion, just a regular price as the cut up chickens was also lower in price. My wife made chicken for Sunday dinner and (GASP) it tasted just as good as what my home grown chickens did. So, Last night she baught 4 more 4-5 lbs (Cornish X).whole frier chickens at a different National chain grocery store. for $0.79 a lb. Is this price drop of $0.20 a lb. a trend now ? This is far cheaper than what it costs in feed input alone in my area not to mention one own's time , housing, power and labor costs.

 

[j.luetkemeyer]

Right now many of the large corporate producers have surpluses of chicken. They are producing way more than the market is demanding so chicken has come down in price. It is better for them to take a small loss compared to having the meat go bad and having to completely write off the meat. The economy has some to do with it as well as many people are becoming educated about the true quality of this meat. They are beginning to buy local.

 

[dancingbear]

I was talking to the fellow I buy my feed from, he's an older gentleman, very knowledgeable, he's been on farms his whole life. He's working on developing an improved strain of corn, a higher protein content, big kernels, smaller cob. Anyway, he was telling me that a pal of his works in one of the local distilleries. His job is monitoring and recording the analysis of the grains that come in. They test for protein content, sugar, starch, and so on. He told my feed man that years ago, it was common to see corn that had as much as 13% protein, average was 10%-12%. Now, it's often only 3%-4%, and if they get some that hits 5%, they think they've got good corn.

Yields have gone up, but quality has gone down.

Sadly, much of our modern agriculture has gone this way.

That is a big part of why so many of us want to grow our own, grow organically (NOT debating the legal certification crap, just using organic methods, improving soil, growing heirloom varieties, etc) or nearly organic, (Like maybe you mulched with shredded newspapers, the ink may be iffy, or used plastic pots, maybe you put some Miracle grow on the seedlings, or maybe your seeds weren't organic but your own growing methods are) and raising our own meat, as much as we can.

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Quote:
This is hearsay and based on the thousands of corn samples we have completed the average protein content of the corn we use is in the 8% range.

In reality the protein content of the corn is irrelevant since corn is used as an energy source in livestock rations. This also applies to Jim Bob's alcohol plant, they want STARCH not protein.

Jim

 

[Rosalind]

Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay :

This is hearsay and based on the thousands of corn samples we have completed this is a lie. The average protein content of the corn we use is in the 8% range.

In reality the protein content of the corn is irrelevant since corn is used as an energy source in livestock rations. This also applies to Jim Bob's alcohol plant, they want STARCH not protein.

Jim

Jim, it depends on what you're using the corn for. Sure, for fermentation you primarily want sugars, unless you're Coors or Budweiser using corn for beer--you do need some protein content in beer and malt liquor. It helps grow a higher density yeast in the initial aerobic growth stage, and also helps flocculate the sediment. If you're making American style beer (AKA dishwater), protein gives it some body and head. Not that I would ever recommend drinking beer that has corn fermentation products in it, but apparently there are some people who do so by choice.

In my household, it's good for drowning slugs.

Corn used for critter feed can be used for a carbohydrate source OR a protein source, depending on how much protein it has. Think of it this way, your goal is to have a feed with, for example, 18% protein--some will come from corn, some will come from wheat, some will come from rye, fishmeal, etc. Your only goal is to make that 18% protein as cheaply as possible, and corn, as you know, is dirt cheap when it comes to feed formulation. The more your corn can offset the amount of other, more expensive proteins, the cheaper the total cost of the feed. Even using hypothetical numbers and not-very-recent grain & fishmeal prices, I'm getting a cost savings of about $30-42/6000 lbs. of feed for every 2% higher protein content in corn--that is, with a protein content of 10% versus 8%. $30/6000 lbs. might not be much, but on the slim margins most feed mills are making and over the massive quantities used for even a medium-size herd of cattle, it adds up.

Also, I don't think you really mean to accuse dancingbear of lying about the quality of her local corn. I'm sure you're well aware that corn protein content varies over region according to weather, climate, type of corn planted, soil quality, irrigation practices, rotation practices and fertilizers used. While you may have gotten different results from your suppliers than she sees locally, that certainly doesn't mean she is lying or that you are lying--only that protein content varies depending on a lot of different factors. I appreciate that you feel strongly about the issue, but your personal feelings don't warrant that type of accusation.​