Has anyone heard of Painted Mountain. It is a 13% multicolor corn developed in Montana. I believe from plant to harvest (hardened) is 85 days or less. Very drought tolerant. You can look it up on the web. I am trying this year for the first time.
Organic and Economy
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That is a big part of why so many of us want to grow our own, grow organically (NOT debating the legal certification crap, just using organic methods, improving soil, growing heirloom varieties, etc) or nearly organic, (Like maybe you mulched with shredded newspapers, the ink may be iffy, or used plastic pots, maybe you put some Miracle grow on the seedlings, or maybe your seeds weren't organic but your own growing methods are) and raising our own meat, as much as we can.
This is more on the lines of being a homesteader not an organic farmer. I feel the same way, you should be as economical as possible. I also feel organics is over-rated... as what you mentioned above is not "exacltly" organic... but it's close enough for me.
This is more on the lines of being a homesteader not an organic farmer. I feel the same way, you should be as economical as possible. I also feel organics is over-rated... as what you mentioned above is not "exacltly" organic... but it's close enough for me.
Rosalind, thanks for the additional info about what distilleries look for, and why, I don't know much about distilling, just reporting what I was told by my feed guy. I didn't ask what kind of distillery his pal works in. I was more interested in what he's doing with his corn breeding, and he kindly offered me a bit of Hickory Cane seed when I'm ready for it this year, which I'm taking him up on. (If it looks like I'll be able to keep it watered this year, I'll plant it, if not, I'll wait until next year, and hope we get county water by then.)
I'm not sure I can make this link work: jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/51/4/623.pdf -
If not, you can probably just paste it into the google search box. It's a PDF file of a study done on low and high protein corn used as livestock feed. On the 2nd page, they state what protein ranges were, 6.8%-9.1% was considered low, 9.5%-13.6% was high. The corn was harvested from 1948 through 1950.
This was the best I could find regarding protein in feed corn that long ago. I wasn't able to find anything stating average corn protein content for recent years. I know that the label on the shell corn I buy usually states somewhere in the neighborhood of 5%. I have no way of knowing if this is typical worldwide, or just locally, so, Jim, I won't call you a liar based on what I buy around here. If you can find any sort of documentation for protein content of modern corn crops, I'd be interested in reading it.
I did find a couple of sites that gave protein values for sweet corn, it was 3.2%. They did not specify any particular variety.
I know there are heirloom varieties that produce much higher, such as the Painted Mountain that j.luetkemeyer mentioned, and there are others. Hickory Cane is one. These varieties are not the ones normally grown commercially, however, and are not commonly available either as feed, or at the supermarket. I can give some good sources of heirloom seeds, if anybody wants, I'll be happy to post them.
I'm not sure I can make this link work: jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/51/4/623.pdf -
If not, you can probably just paste it into the google search box. It's a PDF file of a study done on low and high protein corn used as livestock feed. On the 2nd page, they state what protein ranges were, 6.8%-9.1% was considered low, 9.5%-13.6% was high. The corn was harvested from 1948 through 1950.
This was the best I could find regarding protein in feed corn that long ago. I wasn't able to find anything stating average corn protein content for recent years. I know that the label on the shell corn I buy usually states somewhere in the neighborhood of 5%. I have no way of knowing if this is typical worldwide, or just locally, so, Jim, I won't call you a liar based on what I buy around here. If you can find any sort of documentation for protein content of modern corn crops, I'd be interested in reading it.
I did find a couple of sites that gave protein values for sweet corn, it was 3.2%. They did not specify any particular variety.
I know there are heirloom varieties that produce much higher, such as the Painted Mountain that j.luetkemeyer mentioned, and there are others. Hickory Cane is one. These varieties are not the ones normally grown commercially, however, and are not commonly available either as feed, or at the supermarket. I can give some good sources of heirloom seeds, if anybody wants, I'll be happy to post them.
Quote:
Rosalind:
Regardless of what the protein content of the corn is, it does not overcome the fact that corn is a POOR source of protein for monogastrics (i.e. chickens and pigs). It contains a low level of Lysine which is the most important amino acid in growing chicks and pigs. NO matter how much corn you provide to the chick you will NOT have engough lysine to utilize the 'protein' in the corn.
Without a doubt the protein in the corn is utilized by the animal, however it must be supplemented with a true protein source such as soybean meal, fish meal, or another legume see meal. Corn is an energy source for livestock pure and simple, a good one at that, but a poor source of protein.
Jim
Rosalind:
Regardless of what the protein content of the corn is, it does not overcome the fact that corn is a POOR source of protein for monogastrics (i.e. chickens and pigs). It contains a low level of Lysine which is the most important amino acid in growing chicks and pigs. NO matter how much corn you provide to the chick you will NOT have engough lysine to utilize the 'protein' in the corn.
Without a doubt the protein in the corn is utilized by the animal, however it must be supplemented with a true protein source such as soybean meal, fish meal, or another legume see meal. Corn is an energy source for livestock pure and simple, a good one at that, but a poor source of protein.
Jim
Quote:
Without a doubt the protein content of the corn has decreased since 1950. The yield has also increased from about 55 bushels per acre to well over 150 this year. We have bred corn hybrids to better convert sunshine into carbohydrates for use in food, feed, and fuel. Unfortunately corn does not produce protein very well or efficiently, therefore we have captialized on it inherent abilities to produce an almost perfect energy source for livestock feeds.
This is one of the positive outcomes of Modern Agriculture, we can produce more corn for feed on fewer acres. These varities are used by both conventional and organic crop farmers in the US.
Jim
Without a doubt the protein content of the corn has decreased since 1950. The yield has also increased from about 55 bushels per acre to well over 150 this year. We have bred corn hybrids to better convert sunshine into carbohydrates for use in food, feed, and fuel. Unfortunately corn does not produce protein very well or efficiently, therefore we have captialized on it inherent abilities to produce an almost perfect energy source for livestock feeds.
This is one of the positive outcomes of Modern Agriculture, we can produce more corn for feed on fewer acres. These varities are used by both conventional and organic crop farmers in the US.
Jim
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Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay :
Regardless of what the protein content of the corn is, it does not overcome the fact that corn is a POOR source of protein for monogastrics (i.e. chickens and pigs). It contains a low level of Lysine which is the most important amino acid in growing chicks and pigs. NO matter how much corn you provide to the chick you will NOT have engough lysine to utilize the 'protein' in the corn.
Without a doubt the protein in the corn is utilized by the animal, however it must be supplemented with a true protein source such as soybean meal, fish meal, or another legume see meal.
Depends on how the corn is processed. Soaking the corn at high pH hydrolyzes the lysine and some B vitamins. But yes, plain dried #2 corn is not sufficient. I agree that you're going to have to supplement anyway--around here they use fish meal as a supplement since we're close to the coast and the fish processors, and the quantity of fish meal that you have to use to bring the total to 18% is such that there would be all the lysine needed and then some. But I can see if you're using soybeans that would be a problem.
You know what, I am surprised more mills don't use sunflower pomace. High in protein, high in vitamins, grows most places (even Siberia!), yields twice as much oil/acre and the most oil/acre that you'd get out of any temperate climate oil crop (not as much as tropical climate crops tho'). Can be made into pretty much anything you'd make peanuts into--nut butter, mixed in cereal, cooking oil, etc. I haven't tried to make tofu out of sunflower seeds, but it's something to try.
Can be harvested with any ordinary combine for wheat or row crops. The thing is, you can sell veggie oil for a lot more than you'd get for feed meal or flour, so if you're going to grow a crop that will be dual-purpose (oil + feed), it seems like sunflowers are a better deal economically than either soy or corn.
Just sayin'. Earlier this year I was figuring out what to plant in test plots for the critters, and at this point we can only see the economics of growing sweet and pop corn for human consumption. When it came to test plots for critter feed, a mix of native American grains, sunflowers and greens won out in nutrition and hardiness.
Regardless of what the protein content of the corn is, it does not overcome the fact that corn is a POOR source of protein for monogastrics (i.e. chickens and pigs). It contains a low level of Lysine which is the most important amino acid in growing chicks and pigs. NO matter how much corn you provide to the chick you will NOT have engough lysine to utilize the 'protein' in the corn.
Without a doubt the protein in the corn is utilized by the animal, however it must be supplemented with a true protein source such as soybean meal, fish meal, or another legume see meal.
Depends on how the corn is processed. Soaking the corn at high pH hydrolyzes the lysine and some B vitamins. But yes, plain dried #2 corn is not sufficient. I agree that you're going to have to supplement anyway--around here they use fish meal as a supplement since we're close to the coast and the fish processors, and the quantity of fish meal that you have to use to bring the total to 18% is such that there would be all the lysine needed and then some. But I can see if you're using soybeans that would be a problem.
You know what, I am surprised more mills don't use sunflower pomace. High in protein, high in vitamins, grows most places (even Siberia!), yields twice as much oil/acre and the most oil/acre that you'd get out of any temperate climate oil crop (not as much as tropical climate crops tho'). Can be made into pretty much anything you'd make peanuts into--nut butter, mixed in cereal, cooking oil, etc. I haven't tried to make tofu out of sunflower seeds, but it's something to try.
Just sayin'. Earlier this year I was figuring out what to plant in test plots for the critters, and at this point we can only see the economics of growing sweet and pop corn for human consumption. When it came to test plots for critter feed, a mix of native American grains, sunflowers and greens won out in nutrition and hardiness.
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There are thausands of acres of short (about 3' tall) sunflowers grown as well as safflower.
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We just received a flier dopped off at my daughter's house while we visited. An older, smoking, huge SUV stopped at the corner and these people whent door to door dropping off these urgent fliers from a group representing " Supreme Master Ching Hai" " World renouned Humanitarian, Artist, and Spiritual teacher" in it he states " The way it is going, if they don't fix it, in 4 or 5 years time, finito, No more."... "due to global warming... livestock production produces more greenhouse gases than all worldwide transportation combined... 65% of human caused nitrous oxide.. 37% of all human caused methane... we must FORBID eating meat : to diminish the real threat of a worldwide pandemic from bird flu, to avoid the danger of mad cow disease (BSE) and pig disease (PMWS) etc. to stop the gruesome sacrifice of billions of our sweet domestic animals, marine life, and feathered friends daily." That "we must go Vegetarian or Vegan, drive hybrid vehicles, plant more trees, change to sustainable energy and pray. " According to this buletin: they recommend eating "tofu- 16% protein, gluten from flour- 70%, CORN 13% protein, rice 8.6%, soy beans, kidneybeans, nuts-14-30%, beans, chick peas, lentils, etc-10-35%, pumpkin sesame, sunflower seeds - 18-24% protein. " They recommend "taking multi-vitamin pills/ capsuls as a source of vitamins, minerals and anti-oxidants." Then they tell you to go to 3 web sites and to watch their TV programs.
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