Organic / gmo / regular / opinions please

[stasichick]

Hello Friends!!!!

So I am an avid gardener! (and chicken owner) we love "living off the land" as much as possible. We have a fairly large garden that pumps out delish food all summer long! LOVE IT! I usually try to buy organic seeds and plants. Sometimes I don't ( just because I cant find what I want organic!) Organic in general can be expensive so I do what I can when I can. I do not use anything in my garden except for homemade compost.

Anywhoo.... I was talking to a health / nutrition savy person about corn and how its super modified and really isn't the best thing for you. Then I read an article saying that corn in its original (un modified) form doesnt look so much like the corn we all love and know. So I was a bit confused: I found organic corn seeds and the package sure does look like corn! I tried to read some articles on the subject but it seemed to be a lot of opinion based and or had a lot of tangents about other things. I was really trying to get down to the bottom of it.

Then it got me thinking... I feed my chickens all the (healthy) goodies in the world but in the winter their scratch has corn in it. Am I doing them a disservice by feeding them corn? (I know they will eat anything!)

 

[kristaschics15]

Corn for chickens is fine. Corn for humans not so much (I eat it... So can't judge). Our bodies weren't really meant to process corn which is evident when we eat whole corn kernels if you know what I mean.

GMO in my agricultural educated opinion is nothing to be scared of but maybe limit. I don't go out of my way to look for non GMO but don't begrudge anyone who does. It's a choice. Everything is genetically modified to a certain extent. Oh and for anyone who is interested there is no such thing as a GMO tomato so don't fall in a trap if someone wants to sell you more expensive non GMO tomatoes.

The difference that people often can tell is fresh vs imported. I try to find fresh local sources and a farmer where I agree with their practices.

I'm not anti-organic I just know from work and experience that it's not really what people think it is and I suggest doing a lot of research before throwing down the cash for something that isn't what you think it is. If you want true organic best is to do like you are doing and grow it yourself from quality seeds.

 

[ldawntaylor]

Hi,

There seems to be a lot of confusion at times about the difference between hybrid and GMO. From my perspective a GMO should be considered as requiring human action while a hybrid can occur naturally. By human action I mean scientists manipulating the DNA of separate types of things.

The GMO corn could have DNA from a frog or fish if it is drought resistant while the hybrid corn is just two or more types of corn cross-pollinated. Three or Four years ago there was a lot of talk about spider goats - goats with spider DNA added. That experiment did not work well. In Japan there were experiments with glow in the dark pigs - they had jelly fish DNA added. These are just a few that have caught my attention over the last few years.

If you want to see what the "original" corn may have looked like...finding some maize would be a good place to start.

I just find this type of thing interesting so I'm often reading more about it.

Lisa

 

[kristaschics15]

Hi,

There seems to be a lot of confusion at times about the difference between hybrid and GMO.  From my perspective a GMO should be considered as requiring human action while a hybrid can occur naturally. By human action I mean scientists manipulating the DNA of separate types of things.

The GMO corn could have DNA from a frog or fish if it is drought resistant while the hybrid corn is just two or more types of corn cross-pollinated.  Three or Four years ago there was a lot of talk about spider goats - goats with spider DNA added.  That experiment did not work well.  In Japan there were experiments with glow in the dark pigs - they had jelly fish DNA added.  These are just a few that have caught my attention over the last few years.

If you want to see what the "original" corn may have looked like...finding some maize would be a good place to start.

I just find this type of thing interesting so I'm often reading more about it.

Lisa

Great distinction between the two!

 

[Ridgerunner]

If you look up the requirements for something to be certified organic, either plants or animals, you might see some surprises. It is not always what people think and you see a lot of things misrepresented. I strongly advise you to do your own research and don’t depend on a stranger over the internet like me telling you things. You will make your decisions based on knowledge that way, not rumors.

Personally I consider “organic” more of a way of life instead of following certain prescribed rules. All poisons kill. Treat them all with respect whether they are natural or manmade. Plants absorb nutrients. Provide them with nutrients without damaging the environment. How you go about that is up to you. Personally I really like compost.

Basically every domesticated animal and practically all vegetables and fruits have been developed by selective breeding. That means people breed the animals and plants that have the traits they want and over time they get plants or animals with enhanced traits. There are all kinds of ways to go about this and often you would not recognize the actual parent of the plant or animal.

One thing that is often maligned on here is the Cornish Cross broiler. Those were developed by selective breeding back in the 1950’s, long before there was any gene manipulation but how often have you heard them referred to as Frankenchickens? They were developed exactly as every chicken breed was developed, selective breeding by people that knew what they were doing.

Corn is one that is talked about a lot and yes, a whole lot of commercial corn has been manipulated by GMO. It’s one to be careful of, though the majority of GMO is related to field corn, not the garden sweet corn we often grow. The majority of the hybrids sold as sweet corn have been developed by cross breeding certain corn varieties, not by using GMO technology. Corn is tricky ground. You would not even come close to knowing what corn was in its original form. I don’t think that even exists anymore.

 

[Fluffnpuff]

Anywhoo.... I was talking to a health / nutrition savy person about corn and how its super modified and really isn't the best thing for you. Then I read an article saying that corn in its original (un modified) form doesnt look so much like the corn we all love and know. So I was a bit confused: I found organic corn seeds and the package sure does look like corn! I tried to read some articles on the subject but it seemed to be a lot of opinion based and or had a lot of tangents about other things. I was really trying to get down to the bottom of it.

Then it got me thinking... I feed my chickens all the (healthy) goodies in the world but in the winter their scratch has corn in it. Am I doing them a disservice by feeding them corn? (I know they will eat anything!)

To answer the questions would require defining what "modify" means in the context. In a general sense, all domesticated crops are modified. Selective breeding turned wild teosinte grasses into modern corn. Similarly wild emmer/spelt/einkorn was domesticated into modern wheat. During the Neolithic revolution, early man figured out how to breed wild plants to increase yield and ease of harvest. In that regard nearly everything we put in our mouth is modified. Your chickens are modified unless you have a pure strain of red jungle fowl.

I would draw a big difference between selective breeding between strains of the same species and modern genetically modified organisms. GMO crops use genetic engineering to introduce traits from an entirely different species into the target crop. I've read that roundup ready crops have genes from a bacteria inserted into them in order to be immune to the herbicide sprayed onto the field. I'm sure i'm botching the finer nuances that would cause a biochemist to hair pull, but the gyst is that gmos are transgenic.

Leaving aside the debate on gmos, there are a few things i'd like to point out. Contrary to common perception, there isn't a way for the average joe with a garden to get ahold of gmo seeds. AFAIK, it takes strictly enforced multi year legal contracts with Monsantos/syngenta/bayer to get a shipment of gmo seeds. They are copyrighted out the ying yang so you're never going to stumble into a garden store or seed catalog and accidentally get bt corn. The phrase "non gmo seeds" is partially just a marketing move by seed companies to capitalize on the growing debate over gmo crops. The seeds you can casually buy from a garden store are all non gmo. For us average joes and janes, it shouldn't be a huge worry. Now if you had a 1,000 acre farm and wanted to avoid being sued by a transnational corporation, it'd make sense to only buy from companies that regularly test their seeds to ensure they don't have a shred of gmo dna contamination.

I grow "organically" in the sense that I don't use artificial fertilizers, pesticides, fungicides, ect and I generally grow only older heirlooms, but I don't buy usda organic seeds because I don't find it imperative to pay extra. I'd be much more concerned about my own growing practices. Unless you are aiming to be a usda certified organic farm, I wouldn't worry about it.

Your chickens will be fine assuming they are getting a balanced diet with enough protein and calcium. Scratch feed with corn is a normal supplement although I wouldn't use it as a stand alone feed.

 

[stasichick]

Wow thank you everyone for your feedback!!!!!

At the end of the day- my chickens eat better than i do! Veggies galore! and I eat pretty well myself. I will stick to what I do and be happy with it! Its alarming to think something you have been doing your whole life is possibly the opposite of what you should be doing. But honestly, there is nothing better than ANYTHING out of my garden! )

Thank you all again for your feed back!