Organic isn't always the best

[chickened]

???? Organic only became a "selling term" when the government got in & allowed big Ag in the mix. Buy local and from who you know. If you don't want to spend the money on organic, great. It seems everyone who doesn't agree with organic has to demean it to "justify" their way of thinking.

The only proven difference in the organic crops that I am aware of is that the fruit and vegetables do have higher quantities of trace nutrients due to the availability of them in the soil that is not amended with chemical fertilizer.

Stating what scientists have concluded as fact is hardly demeaning. Chemicals are chemicals regardless and that is what you get from food to your body the rest goes out the other end.

I actually eat organic when it makes sense but it rarely justifies the cost when as you suggest local produce grown responsibly is available. I am sorry I just think "organic" is a hoax.

 

[OldGuy43]

I have seen birds from non-organic farms look very much the same. Condition is very much as function of intensive production conditions. In the relatvely warm conditions of layer building the near naked appearance may help reduce heat stress. Same birds outside will have exposure issues and in my case be too limited in flight to evade predators.

Not meaning to offend, but Centrarchid brings up an issue that I have always wondered about. What is the difference between "intensive production conditions" and using artificial light to increase egg production? Seems to me that neither is beneficial to the bird.

 

[chickened]

My feelings on the matter is that it depends who you are. There is a trend in this country to demonize bid ag when in reality us little guys do some of the same things like penning, artificial light, supplemented feed and probably one of the worst for the health of a chicken... treats. IMO

It is difficult to solicit funds to attack an individual but when some can garner a common enemy donations increase.

 

[OldGuy43]

My feelings on the matter is that it depends who you are. There is a trend in this country to demonize bid ag when in reality us little guys do some of the same things like penning, artificial light, supplemented feed and probably one of the worst for the health of a chicken... treats. IMO

It is difficult to solicit funds to attack an individual but when some can garner a common enemy donations increase.

I have to agree. Anyone recognize this small, locally owned store?


If you said Sam Walton's (The founder of WalMart) first store in Bentonville, Arkansas you win a free egg.
My point is that mega-businesses had to start somewhere. It's the American dream.

 

[janinepeters]

Quote: "Intensive production conditions" implies extreme overcrowding and lack of appropriate stimulation (i.e., little or no opportunity to forage, monotonous environment), not just the use of artificial light. Based on the behavior of the birds (e.g., cannibalism), I think it's fair to say that they are miserable when subjected to the degree of crowding and confinement in intensive production systems. The use of artificial light, on the other hand, is not associated with behaviors that suggest the birds are suffering.

 

[chickened]

"Intensive production conditions" implies extreme overcrowding and lack of appropriate stimulation (i.e., little or no opportunity to forage, monotonous environment), not just the use of artificial light. Based on the behavior of the birds (e.g., cannibalism), I think it's fair to say that they are miserable when subjected to the degree of crowding and confinement in intensive production systems. The use of artificial light, on the other hand, is not associated with behaviors that suggest the birds are suffering.

Respectively,I am not sure what you are saying is entirely accurate.

Chickens that are under stress from whatever do not lay and do not eat secondly... always. I have chickens that seem miserable under the best conditions from the treatment of other chickens. Misery is relative not a symptom.

Intensive production conditions are not all equal. The current laws say an animal needs food, water and shelter to be in compliance, anything more luxurious would be relative.

I think what the poster is referrimng to is they see no difference really except in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Oregon Blues]

"Organic" has a lot to do with the feed fed and very little to do with the living conditions.

If it is important to you to eat fried chicken and poached eggs that have been produced in comfortable living conditions from birds that are loved and well cared for, either raise your own, or else buy local from a producer who is happy to take the time to sit and tell you exactly how their birds are raised. Also, be prepared to pay premium prices. It is not cheap to raise poultry with lots of time and attention, plenty of space, excellent feed, and safe housing.

Do not expect to be able to go and walk around the farm and touch the birds. Many poultry raisers practice strict bio-security.

 

[janinepeters]

Quote:
I did not say physiologically stressed, I said miserable, which relates to one's subjective experience. Productivity is not a measure of contentment or misery. A human can be beaten into submission on a daily basis, yet still be a highly productive member of society. Battered wives and children are living examples of this. Masochists may enjoy it, but the vast majority are miserable under such conditions.

Misery is indeed a symptom of diagnosable disorders in humans. That we are not able to diagnose them in animals does not mean they don't exist. Second, if a chicken is miserable from treatment by other chickens, it is not "the best of conditions". In the best of conditions, rejected members of a flock would have the freedom to split off, find alternative habitat, and exist in peace. Forced confinement is, by definition, not "the best of conditions".

The minimum legal requirements for animal care are not based on any attempt to estimate the degree of contentment or misery, and fulfilling them does not mean the animal is not suffering.

 

[OldGuy43]

I see. Free range = good. Living in a cage = bad. Having to hunt and scratch your own food = good. Being fed on a regular basis = bad. When stated that way kinda makes you go "Hmmmmmmmmm?" doesn't it?

 

[duckinnut]

I see. Free range = good. Living in a cage = bad. Having to hunt and scratch your own food = good. Being fed on a regular basis = bad. When stated that way kinda makes you go "Hmmmmmmmmm?" doesn't it?

That can translate to more than just chickens my friend.