Orpingtons - An ocean apart??

[justuschickens59]

Quote:
Again, X2

I wonder if I can copy and paste this in a document so I can print it out and put in my chicken book? I'll have to try this.

 

[Candiss]

I am primarily a bantam cochin and silkie person, but I do love the orpington breed, the buffs I have are not as short or heavy as my black UK orpingtons. I love them all, I doubt I will be showing them. But my UK style Orpington lays well, maybe not as well as the buffs. I guess I need to read the SOP for the breed. Does anyone have a link to the standard? Thank you.

 

[lildinkem]

Quote:
Again, X2

I wonder if I can copy and paste this in a document so I can print it out and put in my chicken book? I'll have to try this.

I still have more chapters to post. There is a link to this book on one of our Orp threads. The only diff I see it lacks some of the pics. Trually is a fun book to read. Gives more about things like why you do not want to use a bird with Red leakage. Talks of the history behind each variety. I think I have a few more chapters to copy. And already have some other chapters going into detail about each variety. I will try to post them here today sometime.

 

[aveca]

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Walt, didn't some Cornish breeders try arguing to change the Cornish standard at Shawnee because of the lack of a pearl eye in the UK standard and no pearl eyes in the US birds? Yet someone had some pearl eye Cornish in their truck at Shawnee.

Glad you mentioned Ralph Brazelton. He had to hang up on me once because he had hens in trapnests that needed to be released. His Orpingtons would produce 200+ eggs per year and still meet the SOP. It was an honor competing with at the shows. I would sell everything to get some of his line. Well, almost everything. Would you trade Jacob for a trio of Ralph's line Buff Orps?

I have a question Walt..of corse the standard is the thing to live by. , heres the thing..Doug acres mixed up german new hampshires and delaware, he won nationals with resulting pullet..he wanted to correct a few things and he did it..the new hampshirees which were foundation bird of delaware breed, germans took the breed , made a better tail on it and doug wasnt afraid to introduce a foundation breed back , delawares needeed a shot in the arm so to speak, you know what I mean you have been at thier thread..dougs really a master breeder I think, he does what he knows he needs to do to get a result, he had it in his mind , if I add the perfect german hampshire tail back into dels , well the result was a WOW ..My question is this, when I TALK TO FREINDS IN AUSTRALIA LINDA AND BRYAN, AND SHOW THEM what I have they correct me and offer advise on australorps , first thing they said was """tails too big...fix it.""I said with what? they said you need to add the foundation back in, dont mess with langshans like australia did , they got red between the toes, serious fault so best not mess with that make a mess a bigger mess, best to add the foundation to correct tail issues..the aussie rooster I have is from east coast champions bath NY..my hens are pretty much trash, I do have a couple BOBs both fair shows and APA. ..blk orps are the foundation on wich australorps was built..is that what you mean by mixing breeds? cochin is foundation breed for orps and a few brits said they infused it back in to neaten up the tail and add bulk..they were unafraid to correct a problem .is that what you mean by mixing breeds?I dont think that its worth arguing whos are better UK or US. EACH have different climatic conditions owners needs ect..someday austalian breeders may turn to us or UK breeders and vise versa..australians I think are almost evolving the australorp way beyond what it was intended as a monster egg layer with lots of curves, they are loosing thier curves and getting a V shape too short necks ect..
right in the book that somone just posted in here, 1812 I think, the breeder who wrote it said he did same thing kept his head down and charged forward threw this and that into the pot showed, won and got orders from all over creation the next year..he said 60 years of trial error and lots of experience in show ring.

I tend to lean toward american blk orps, the good ones. I dont know, over all I leaned back toward that expression I saw on that page in US SOP. I am working toward a bit of aussie down under, but Im not going to make the great bird of curves look like a V like they did .look on thier site they are more ball than curves or V shapped. but Im not going to quit at this and wait for somone to make a decision for me..Im going to keep at it and I am pretty happy with what Im getting ., there just are not many of these real australorps here they are on endangered list. if they need a foundation shot, they shall have one.

the australorp was created as a project to increase egg production, blk orps had terrible low number of eggs for a while and needed to improve it. I like projects as long as they are practical.and keep to standard..sometimes something needs a fix...things always evolve thats life, sometimes for better sometimes for worse..the standard gives a base to build on. I didnt see that much of a drastic difference between the 2 standards, fashion dictates and fads come and go

 

[aveca]

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well said, each side has problems of thier own, some of the brit birds get ironing board chests considered a fault in thier own book , US has thier own problems...its a matter of practicality here, cant have a bird not be able to wander out a bit in snow and not get froze to the ground for a fashion statement.and I dont like that V shape Im seeing here and there..too much langshan added at some point

 

[kathyinmo]

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Well, I dunno, Walt. You know more about chickens and type than I will ever learn in my lifetime. I sorta thought they looked like (type wise) some of my Coronation Sussex. I have no idea about SOP on Sussex, or on Cochins, for that matter. Just what I was seeing with my untrained eye today. My Sussex are just huge, just like my English Orps. My cochins (I have only 3) are of good size, too, but I doubt they will ever be as large as my Coronation Sussex. I just love BIG birds, and I imagine that is one reason I love them so much. My Jersey Giants, Coronation Sussex, and English Orps all have my heart. I love them!

 

[Candiss]

Kathy,

They are all soo beautiful...

 

[kathyinmo]

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Thank you. I am happy with them. SOP or not

I love them! Really, that's all that matters.

 

[hippichick]

I see all of these references to the UK Orp looking like a Cochin without foot feathering. For those who think this, could you explain why this is such a bad thing? I raise Cochins, as do many people, and think they're a beautiful breed-and also great layers. I've raised both American and UK Orps, but now only have the UK Orpington, because I much prefer their type. It's all personal preference.

And I really think that those who are selling UK Orpingtons, whether it be eggs or birds, are happy to make known that these are indeed UK Orps. UK Orps are MUCH harder to come by than are American Orps, and I find it hard to believe that anyone who is looking for Orps will just "stumble" on pure UK Orps. I don't think they've been in the US long enough for that to happen just yet, but that's just my opinion.

 

[aveca]

I dont think it is a bad thing at all, it was just something that breeders were working for over across the pond you can see the evolution chart that someone just posted a few pages back. they are beautiful birds for sure..UK poultry shows never lost thier appeal.they took cochins that were clean legged for the most part and somone leses throw away and used them to make modifications.......over here I was told by older APA judge that during the 40s and 50s , there would upward of 50 to 100 orps in a class..when US moved off the farm and into the work force and let more commercial farms run the meat and egg bizness..a few dedicated breeders held onto some great birds here. now your lucky to see 10 big orps showing , some places more, at 2 shows I went to last year ...none..45 thoussand ducks a few scattered turkeys and some power house bantams. few if any big birds except for brahmas. there are hot spots for popularity but over all kind of dismal..its sad to me to see 1 delaware represented at a show no blk orps. tons of colorful bantams thou. go to a poultry show in britian, there will be 3 full rows of them depending on the show.

"These historic standards were written at a time when chicken breeds were being used for commercial production within several production systems. Input from the top breeders of each breed was used to establish the particulars of size, and other qualities, that would produce the best specimen for the role each breed was designed to fulfill." Don Schrider, Master Breeder of Brown Leghorns


here is market fed champion hurcules and his girls. Hes sure not a bad thing.they have thier problems thou just like everybody else. some with chest like ironing board there was on in here like that but I think they took him off.