Over-use of cologne/perfume in the workplace
- Thread starter TigerLilly
- Start date
- Jul 26, 2010
- 2,969
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There is another side to this issue that is not getting addressed.
My advice is to tread very, very carefully, and to be far, far more concerned about making her feel like an important team member and playing your 'HR Complaint Cards' very, very carefully, than dwelling on how she is attacking your seniority by .... wearing PERFUME.
Keep in mind that some folks wear patchouli to cover up problems with anxiety sweats, or other health problems.
Having been in corporate America for many, many years, I am here to tell you - from the point of view of a harried, hassled, over worked HR person, this sounds like a very, very trivial complaint, you do not have a health issue, you just don't like it. With HR, you get a few 'Aces', like in a card deck. You want to be very, very careful, how you play those aces. Often, complaining to HR winds up backfiring, and making the complainer look worse than the complainee. My advice? BEEEE CAREFUL.
Unless your WRITTEN dress code has a specific mention of use of perfume, it looks even more of a nuisance complaint. BE careful.
If you had handled me the way you handled her, I would ask for a transfer to another department.
Going up to her with your 'patrol' of other women to back you up and prove how you are so right, and make her feel more cornered, and more attacked, was a bad idea. I would be very, very surprised if that tactic worked with anyone - young or old, new or senior.
Going behind her back to HR, ambushing her when she has no idea how incredibly het up you are about this issue or how far you'd take it, is also a bad idea.
She is an employee. So are you. You're also not her supervisor (unless I missed that).
It does not fundamentally matter if you are so senior and she is new. You are members of the same team, and assigned with the same goals - keeping your company profitable. When you start thinking of yourself as 'special' because you have nine years in and others do not, you put yourself on a very, very slippery slope with management, very, very quickly.
You need to find a way to work together and achieve company goals. As a senior person, it is your responsibility to bring new people into the company culture, make them feel welcome and comfortable, and help them do their job. It is your job to keep company goals paramount, and foster the goals of the company above everything else.
My suggestion is this. Hold off going to HR. Instead of mulling over how she is 'attacking your authority' by wearing perfume, and especially instead of talking about it with your friends at work and getting yourself and them more and more indignant and against this person....
...find something to like about her, and think about that. Repeat it to yourself, 'It's great having new folks in the department, they see things differently, and bring new ideas', or 'She reminds me of myself at that age, new in the job market, and learning as she goes'.
Then take notice of her regular duties being done, and praise her. Do NOT overstep your authority to assign work to her, and do not suggest she do something not in her job description. Do not put her in the position of having to decide to obey you vs her supervisor.
Talk to her. 'How was your weekend, Mary?' Expect a sullen response for a while as you have already put her on the defensive. It will take a while for her to relax and trust you. Keep working at it.
If you bring her onboard more, and make her feel welcome and appreciated, she may stop wearing the perfume all on her own. If she does not, once you've built a little bit of a connection to her, then you can talk to her quietly, PRIVATELY PLEASE, don't put her in a corner and don't bring a patrol along.
'Mary, I know we talked about the perfume before, but I don't think I really told you that it bothers me, really a lot. Here's the article in the company policy on perfume. I REALLY don't want to go to HR and complain, but the perfume really bothers me. How about we just take care of this privately, and keep HR out of it? I'd prefer that. We've got a good team we're building here, and I want you to be a big part of it. You've shown a really good work ethic, and I like working with you, so let's just handle this ourselves, ok? What do you think, can we resolve this this way?'.
Then LISTEN.
'No, I don't, all you do is pick on me because I'm new, I hate it and I hate being here'(sobs). - 'I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot. I made some mistakes and I'm not proud of that. I really hope we can fix this. From your view, what should I change?'
'Ummmm...okay I can stop wearing it. I didn't realize you were so mad about it'. - 'I didn't really communicate well with you. I made it like a sort of joke, and I brought my friends along. I wasn't very honest about what I was feeling. I'm sorry about that'.
'I already stopped wearing it, you can still smell it?????' - 'I think it will wear off in a little while. That's good enough for me. I'm really grateful that you're taking my feelings seriously. I really like working with people who do that'.
Then keep it up - keep communicating, keep building the team, and keep focusing on the company goals. The best teams - the VERY BEST teams in any company, any business, are an eclectic mix of people - young, old, new, senior, formal education, as well as worked up through the ranks. Those are the BEST teams. They don't always see things the exact same way, but everyone contributes part of the solution, and they move far more effectively toward a goal.
My advice is to tread very, very carefully, and to be far, far more concerned about making her feel like an important team member and playing your 'HR Complaint Cards' very, very carefully, than dwelling on how she is attacking your seniority by .... wearing PERFUME.
Keep in mind that some folks wear patchouli to cover up problems with anxiety sweats, or other health problems.
Having been in corporate America for many, many years, I am here to tell you - from the point of view of a harried, hassled, over worked HR person, this sounds like a very, very trivial complaint, you do not have a health issue, you just don't like it. With HR, you get a few 'Aces', like in a card deck. You want to be very, very careful, how you play those aces. Often, complaining to HR winds up backfiring, and making the complainer look worse than the complainee. My advice? BEEEE CAREFUL.
Unless your WRITTEN dress code has a specific mention of use of perfume, it looks even more of a nuisance complaint. BE careful.
If you had handled me the way you handled her, I would ask for a transfer to another department.
Going up to her with your 'patrol' of other women to back you up and prove how you are so right, and make her feel more cornered, and more attacked, was a bad idea. I would be very, very surprised if that tactic worked with anyone - young or old, new or senior.
Going behind her back to HR, ambushing her when she has no idea how incredibly het up you are about this issue or how far you'd take it, is also a bad idea.
She is an employee. So are you. You're also not her supervisor (unless I missed that).
It does not fundamentally matter if you are so senior and she is new. You are members of the same team, and assigned with the same goals - keeping your company profitable. When you start thinking of yourself as 'special' because you have nine years in and others do not, you put yourself on a very, very slippery slope with management, very, very quickly.
You need to find a way to work together and achieve company goals. As a senior person, it is your responsibility to bring new people into the company culture, make them feel welcome and comfortable, and help them do their job. It is your job to keep company goals paramount, and foster the goals of the company above everything else.
My suggestion is this. Hold off going to HR. Instead of mulling over how she is 'attacking your authority' by wearing perfume, and especially instead of talking about it with your friends at work and getting yourself and them more and more indignant and against this person....
...find something to like about her, and think about that. Repeat it to yourself, 'It's great having new folks in the department, they see things differently, and bring new ideas', or 'She reminds me of myself at that age, new in the job market, and learning as she goes'.
Then take notice of her regular duties being done, and praise her. Do NOT overstep your authority to assign work to her, and do not suggest she do something not in her job description. Do not put her in the position of having to decide to obey you vs her supervisor.
Talk to her. 'How was your weekend, Mary?' Expect a sullen response for a while as you have already put her on the defensive. It will take a while for her to relax and trust you. Keep working at it.
If you bring her onboard more, and make her feel welcome and appreciated, she may stop wearing the perfume all on her own. If she does not, once you've built a little bit of a connection to her, then you can talk to her quietly, PRIVATELY PLEASE, don't put her in a corner and don't bring a patrol along.
'Mary, I know we talked about the perfume before, but I don't think I really told you that it bothers me, really a lot. Here's the article in the company policy on perfume. I REALLY don't want to go to HR and complain, but the perfume really bothers me. How about we just take care of this privately, and keep HR out of it? I'd prefer that. We've got a good team we're building here, and I want you to be a big part of it. You've shown a really good work ethic, and I like working with you, so let's just handle this ourselves, ok? What do you think, can we resolve this this way?'.
Then LISTEN.
'No, I don't, all you do is pick on me because I'm new, I hate it and I hate being here'(sobs). - 'I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot. I made some mistakes and I'm not proud of that. I really hope we can fix this. From your view, what should I change?'
'Ummmm...okay I can stop wearing it. I didn't realize you were so mad about it'. - 'I didn't really communicate well with you. I made it like a sort of joke, and I brought my friends along. I wasn't very honest about what I was feeling. I'm sorry about that'.
'I already stopped wearing it, you can still smell it?????' - 'I think it will wear off in a little while. That's good enough for me. I'm really grateful that you're taking my feelings seriously. I really like working with people who do that'.
Then keep it up - keep communicating, keep building the team, and keep focusing on the company goals. The best teams - the VERY BEST teams in any company, any business, are an eclectic mix of people - young, old, new, senior, formal education, as well as worked up through the ranks. Those are the BEST teams. They don't always see things the exact same way, but everyone contributes part of the solution, and they move far more effectively toward a goal.
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What do you do, though, when you have a legitimate health concern that is life-threatening and must be addressed ASAP, but no one at the office cares?
As for BO, yeah, that's icky, too, but at least it doesn't give me asthma attacks.
As for BO, yeah, that's icky, too, but at least it doesn't give me asthma attacks.
Quote:
LOL! I have worked in a county jail and then in a state prison. The county had a male & female side and the state was a male facility. I wore perfume and kept a scented hankie up my uniform sleeve for those situations where I just had to 'escape' the smells, in all 3 situations. Prisoners STINK! Prisons REEK! Part of it has to do with the fact that they could only bathe once/a week and part of it is the food (did I call it food? what a euphemism!) they're fed. The walls of the place pick up the odors......uuuuugggggh! As for the unnecessary attention, nobody tried it more than once......Admin Seg has a purpose.
LOL! I have worked in a county jail and then in a state prison. The county had a male & female side and the state was a male facility. I wore perfume and kept a scented hankie up my uniform sleeve for those situations where I just had to 'escape' the smells, in all 3 situations. Prisoners STINK! Prisons REEK! Part of it has to do with the fact that they could only bathe once/a week and part of it is the food (did I call it food? what a euphemism!) they're fed. The walls of the place pick up the odors......uuuuugggggh! As for the unnecessary attention, nobody tried it more than once......Admin Seg has a purpose.
- Jul 26, 2010
- 2,969
- 4
- 171
"What do you do if it's a real health problem"
Discuss it immediately with your supervisor, but stay VERY calm, and do what he says to do, and nothing else.
Every company is different - but most companies have an employee handbook, and you need to be very familiar with that.
Do be very, very careful though. Make sure it really is a medical issue, and not a personal dislike. The last thing we asthmatics need is a lot of people asking for unnecessary accomodations. It makes it all the harder for those who really need accomodations to get them.
Most asthmatics aren't triggered by perfumes or scents, no matter how strong. Asthma means anxiety, often, and a lot of worry at strong scents...but strong scents do not bother most asthmatics - you will need some documentation to move the request along, to show it really is a sincere medical need.
In some departments, people CONSTANTLY expect everyone to accomodate to their likes and dislikes, and their image of themselves (more senior, smarter, more experienced). Newbies are treated VERY badly - their every move examined and picked over at coffee break or lunch, and the clique won't let them in.
That gal that doesn't hang out and go to the bar with the gang after work, that kid that wears the tie-dyed shirt, the one who's a little shy and awkard and whose clothes are a little off...let them in, welcome them, make them a part of the team. That gal that doesn't hang out might have a sick parent at home, or an autistic kid. The one with the clothes a little off, maybe this is the first job that he's had of that type.
Be very, very careful that you aren't actually creating a problem by excluding and targeting someone, and then going to HR to complain that 'it's the new guy's fault'.
BE CAREFUL not to get in that habit - it's especially a problem after someone has been somewhere a while and gotten comfortable and secure. These days, no one is indispensable, and everyone is replaceable. Don't get an attitude of entitlement. Don't go after the different ones.
I won't recount stories, but I've been in the situations, for many decades. Work is about work.
Discuss it immediately with your supervisor, but stay VERY calm, and do what he says to do, and nothing else.
Every company is different - but most companies have an employee handbook, and you need to be very familiar with that.
Do be very, very careful though. Make sure it really is a medical issue, and not a personal dislike. The last thing we asthmatics need is a lot of people asking for unnecessary accomodations. It makes it all the harder for those who really need accomodations to get them.
Most asthmatics aren't triggered by perfumes or scents, no matter how strong. Asthma means anxiety, often, and a lot of worry at strong scents...but strong scents do not bother most asthmatics - you will need some documentation to move the request along, to show it really is a sincere medical need.
In some departments, people CONSTANTLY expect everyone to accomodate to their likes and dislikes, and their image of themselves (more senior, smarter, more experienced). Newbies are treated VERY badly - their every move examined and picked over at coffee break or lunch, and the clique won't let them in.
That gal that doesn't hang out and go to the bar with the gang after work, that kid that wears the tie-dyed shirt, the one who's a little shy and awkard and whose clothes are a little off...let them in, welcome them, make them a part of the team. That gal that doesn't hang out might have a sick parent at home, or an autistic kid. The one with the clothes a little off, maybe this is the first job that he's had of that type.
Be very, very careful that you aren't actually creating a problem by excluding and targeting someone, and then going to HR to complain that 'it's the new guy's fault'.
BE CAREFUL not to get in that habit - it's especially a problem after someone has been somewhere a while and gotten comfortable and secure. These days, no one is indispensable, and everyone is replaceable. Don't get an attitude of entitlement. Don't go after the different ones.
I won't recount stories, but I've been in the situations, for many decades. Work is about work.
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I know with me, it's hard because I either temp all the time or float around to different branches, so I always treated as an outsider and low on the totem pole. For me, a lot of perfumes bother my allergies and asthma, especially the strong flowery or more chemical types. It really can be a serious reaction, too, sometimes. Some perfumes are so bad that just walking past me can start me wheezing and my asthma is actually very well controlled.
But, I feel that it's not always the type of scent but the amount of it that's the problem. Just a couple of dabs, don't spray it all over your hair and clothes.
But, I feel that it's not always the type of scent but the amount of it that's the problem. Just a couple of dabs, don't spray it all over your hair and clothes.
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Hey TigerLilly! Here I am !!!!!!! Glad that you started this thread. I'm on your side. I also have a history of migraines. I keep my lights OFF in my office I have a small desk lamp that I turn on when needed. But for the most part, I open the blinds and get the natural light that comes thru. My co-workers love that idea. And so does the owners. They say that I am saving them money on the electric bill. lol.
Same for me about the scents. No scented deodorants, no scented lotions, no perfumes or scents in laundry detergent. Can't stand the scents on the sheets, towels and clothes. Gives me a migraine. Unfortunately most air fresheners and household cleaners make me sick as well.
Stand your ground and let them know. Trust me, they will support you.
Hey TigerLilly! Here I am !!!!!!! Glad that you started this thread. I'm on your side. I also have a history of migraines. I keep my lights OFF in my office I have a small desk lamp that I turn on when needed. But for the most part, I open the blinds and get the natural light that comes thru. My co-workers love that idea. And so does the owners. They say that I am saving them money on the electric bill. lol.
Same for me about the scents. No scented deodorants, no scented lotions, no perfumes or scents in laundry detergent. Can't stand the scents on the sheets, towels and clothes. Gives me a migraine. Unfortunately most air fresheners and household cleaners make me sick as well.
Stand your ground and let them know. Trust me, they will support you.
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Cinnamon ... I LOVE cinnamon, but cinnamon flavored candles are like a bat to the face. Eyes go nuts, cannot focus on a computer screen, throbbing headache, sinuses ache, snot galore... it ain't pretty. And no, just because you're just heating cinnamon flavored wax in a mug does NOT mean it doesn't release the crap into the air the same way a fired candle does. That's the WHOLE point of those stupid things, to do the same as a candle without the fire hazard.
Vanilla is harsh too, but only if it's REALLY strong... cinnamon a dab'll do ya... IN.
There is one company's candles that don't bother me at all. No soy, no alcohol, no fake anything. Pure oils... though I confess I haven't risked straight cinnamon even with them, I have gotten Sugar & Spice (vanilla and cinn) and the Apple Pie and them Pumpkin Pie and had NO problems. Actually the mint one kinda clears my nose. And since no alcohol the scent doesn't evaporate. You can store these candles for YEARS and they still smell just as good. AND they burn clean. I put one on our bookself, I do NOT get a black scorchy mark on the bottom of the shelf above. It's awesome. OH, and they burn longer than a lot of others. They've got jars and such, but votives too and they won't hesitate to advise people on how to get the most out of their candles... put votives in a SNUG container... if there's air all around it it will burn faster! Trim the wick to 1/4". Also, the first light is the one that counts. Whatever size puddle it makes on that first burn is the puddle it'll make from then on... which means if you light your 4" diameter jar for only a little while, a 1-2" puddle, that's what's going to happen next time you light it... a nice little hole straight down the middle... then the sides cave in and your candle gets snuffed. They tell you all that to make sure you get the most for your money... and so when you've had a great experience you'll come back for more. Rather than not telling you all that and having you back the next day having to buy more because yours burned down so fast. Hmm, think I like that company or what?
Overall I think the perfume thing is pretty simple. There are a few businesses where you're there to attract customers... not family friendly businesses but they do exist... legally in some states... so in THOSE I can understand makeup, perfume, specific attire... otherwise I don't see why your desire to attract every possible mate in the area should have anything to do with your job, me, or my nose.
Cinnamon ... I LOVE cinnamon, but cinnamon flavored candles are like a bat to the face. Eyes go nuts, cannot focus on a computer screen, throbbing headache, sinuses ache, snot galore... it ain't pretty. And no, just because you're just heating cinnamon flavored wax in a mug does NOT mean it doesn't release the crap into the air the same way a fired candle does. That's the WHOLE point of those stupid things, to do the same as a candle without the fire hazard.
Vanilla is harsh too, but only if it's REALLY strong... cinnamon a dab'll do ya... IN.
There is one company's candles that don't bother me at all. No soy, no alcohol, no fake anything. Pure oils... though I confess I haven't risked straight cinnamon even with them, I have gotten Sugar & Spice (vanilla and cinn) and the Apple Pie and them Pumpkin Pie and had NO problems. Actually the mint one kinda clears my nose. And since no alcohol the scent doesn't evaporate. You can store these candles for YEARS and they still smell just as good. AND they burn clean. I put one on our bookself, I do NOT get a black scorchy mark on the bottom of the shelf above. It's awesome. OH, and they burn longer than a lot of others. They've got jars and such, but votives too and they won't hesitate to advise people on how to get the most out of their candles... put votives in a SNUG container... if there's air all around it it will burn faster! Trim the wick to 1/4". Also, the first light is the one that counts. Whatever size puddle it makes on that first burn is the puddle it'll make from then on... which means if you light your 4" diameter jar for only a little while, a 1-2" puddle, that's what's going to happen next time you light it... a nice little hole straight down the middle... then the sides cave in and your candle gets snuffed. They tell you all that to make sure you get the most for your money... and so when you've had a great experience you'll come back for more. Rather than not telling you all that and having you back the next day having to buy more because yours burned down so fast. Hmm, think I like that company or what?
Overall I think the perfume thing is pretty simple. There are a few businesses where you're there to attract customers... not family friendly businesses but they do exist... legally in some states... so in THOSE I can understand makeup, perfume, specific attire... otherwise I don't see why your desire to attract every possible mate in the area should have anything to do with your job, me, or my nose.
Ok this is how I feel everytime i TRY to walk into Bath & Body Works. My allergies go nuts and I can hardly breath if I am in there. I do not work so I do not have that complaint but I just cannot walk into a perfume store like that.
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