Oyster shells tested for heavy metals?

[Katanahamon]

Here..perhaps you can attack this person next..or do you approve of their sources/conclusions?
https://www.tillysnest.com/2020/02/ovarian-cancer-in-backyard-chickens/

Here is a quote from a study re bias in medical research, which does exist, does affect the reporting of outcomes depending on which entity is funding a study.
”

Conclusions​

Significant progress is required to satisfy reasonable expectations that medical research is trustworthy, reproducible and represents value for money. The proposed strategy comprising mandatory registration of potentially competing interests, registered reports and requiring all publicly funded research is registered can be readily conveyed to policy makers and rapidly implemented. These ideas are not novel and we do not claim that they would solve all problems in medical research. But, while such profound problems persist in medical research, we believe that it is time to implement simple measures to achieve greater transparency, reduce reporting biases and deter poor methodological practices.”
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0141076820956799

 

[Katanahamon]

@Mosey2003 as you can see from the picture above, the product being considered is neither powder ron elemental calcium. It is, in fact, a crumble of (per the analysis) 97% calcium carbonate (consistent with the expectation for oyster shell), and looks to be nothing more than crushed, overpriced, oyster shells harvested (most likely) from the Gulf of Mexico. Egg shells themselves are also almost entirely calcium carbonate.

The mill, Coyote Creek Farms, is in Elgin TX, not far from where I used to live on the east side of Austin, TX. I used to drive thruthere via 95, on my way up to join 35 near Temple taking my daughter to UT-Dallas (Denton, technically). Its not particularly close to the coast, if they mill it themselves, its shipped to them on rail.

Somewhat amusing to me, it is NOT labelled as "organic" or non-GMO, unlike the mills other products. To be TX Certified Organic, one must comply with the USDA National Organic Program, which considers non synthetic materials like DE and Oyster Shells to be allowed additives (page 42), but NOT Agricultural Products over which they have authority. So the Original Poster plans to replace non Organic-certified Oyster Shells with non Organic-certified oyster shells bearing the label of an Organic Certified mill, because they are concerned about what might be in the not organic-certified oyster shells harvested out of the same Gulf waters their not organic-certified oyster shells are...



and now I'm being impolite. Civil, perhaps, but impolite.

Well, if you read the label, it says “certified organic by Tx bla bla bla,” so, pardon me for taking them at their word. If it isn’t, it’s deceptive labeling..I’ll check on their site..

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Here..perhaps you can attack this person next..or do you approve of their sources/conclusions?
https://www.tillysnest.com/2020/02/ovarian-cancer-in-backyard-chickens/

I've read Tilly's Nest - she links to one of the same sources I do regarding flax seeds, provides no sources whatsoever for her opinion re: Soy, and cites approvingly to a source regarding the use of oral contraceptives to reduce incidence of ovarian cancer in hens, which seems "contrary" to some of her other chemical free, non-gmo, organic recommendations. So no, no need to attack what isn't there, I can be merely dismissive.

Particularly as she didn't even address the known problems which will occur if chickens are fed an incomplete diet lacking in a limiting amino acid. Soy, together with other legumes, are very high in Lysine, which is largely absent in corn, barley, oats, wheat, etc as well as most nuts and seeds, such as sunflower. For optimum poultry health, that missing lysine needs to be provided either by the addition of a synthetic such as L-Lysine, or another high lysine source such as fenugreek, menhaden fish mean, or blood meal from an animal protein source (often pigs).

So, in answer to your question, "No". I find many of their conclusions unsupported.

 

[Katanahamon]

@U_Stormcrow - ah, I just saw where initially she was looking for a powder, I didn't bother reading in depth once the science denial started. It's bad for my health

Not looking for a powder, no where did I say that, and not a she. But hey, who’s interested in accuracy, or civility?

 

[Katanahamon]

I've read Tilly's Nest - she links to one of the same sources I do regarding flax seeds, provides no sources whatsoever for her opinion re: Soy, and cites approvingly to a source regarding the use of oral contraceptives to reduce incidence of ovarian cancer in hens, which seems "contrary" to some of her other chemical free, non-gmo, organic recommendations. So no, no need to attack what isn't there, I can be merely dismissive.

Particularly as she didn't even address the known problems which will occur if chickens are fed an incomplete diet lacking in a limiting amino acid. Soy, together with other legumes, are very high in Lysine, which is largely absent in corn, barley, oats, wheat, etc as well as most nuts and seeds, such as sunflower. For optimum poultry health, that missing lysine needs to be provided either by the addition of a synthetic such as L-Lysine, or another high lysine source such as fenugreek, menhaden fish mean, or blood meal from an animal protein source (often pigs).

So, in answer to your question, "No". I find many of their conclusions unsupported.

So, in other words, your own opinion reigns supreme. A more interesting story is to be found in methionine. And, as I said, you seem to want the last word, so, have at it.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

(and from the Oral Contraceptive study she cites)

QUOTE:
We have shown that administration of progestin, either alone or in combination with estrogen, decreases ovarian cancer prevalence in the hen (Table 1). In fact, treatment with progestin alone, or in combination with estrogen, significantly reduced the risk by 91% and 81%, respectively. These results extend a previous study which reported a 15% reduction in ovarian cancer in hens treated with MPA [9]. One difference between the previous study and the current one is the duration of MPA administration. In the Barnes et al study, hens were injected with MPA three times during the treatment period, resulting in decreased egg production for 4 weeks immediately following each injection and increased egg production thereafter. On average, egg production was decreased by an estimated 24% in the hens treated with MPA. In contrast, we injected hens with MPA every 3-4 weeks suppressing egg production for approximately 16 months (Figure 2), effectively reducing egg production by 57% and 52% in the P and P+E treatment groups, respectively, compared to control treatment. This treatment scheme resulted in a larger reduction in risk compared to the Barnes et al study, suggesting that the onset of ovarian cancer is related to ovulatory events.
/QUOTE

I'm sure you can understand why those levels of reduced egg production might be, at least, concerning to the owners of productive hens? I'd rather like to see further studies on whether the oral contraceptives then made it into the eggs the hens did lay, and in what concentration. It seems like that might be important? The study was disigned not to look at a better way to raise hens, but rather how human hormone use might affect incidence of ovarian cancers in humans, using the hen as a human analog - since we don't ethically test on humans in such fasion whenever possible.

 

[Katanahamon]

@Mosey2003 as you can see from the picture above, the product being considered is neither powder ron elemental calcium. It is, in fact, a crumble of (per the analysis) 97% calcium carbonate (consistent with the expectation for oyster shell), and looks to be nothing more than crushed, overpriced, oyster shells harvested (most likely) from the Gulf of Mexico. Egg shells themselves are also almost entirely calcium carbonate.

The mill, Coyote Creek Farms, is in Elgin TX, not far from where I used to live on the east side of Austin, TX. I used to drive thruthere via 95, on my way up to join 35 near Temple taking my daughter to UT-Dallas (Denton, technically). Its not particularly close to the coast, if they mill it themselves, its shipped to them on rail.

Somewhat amusing to me, it is NOT labelled as "organic" or non-GMO, unlike the mills other products. To be TX Certified Organic, one must comply with the USDA National Organic Program, which considers non synthetic materials like DE and Oyster Shells to be allowed additives (page 42), but NOT Agricultural Products over which they have authority. So the Original Poster plans to replace non Organic-certified Oyster Shells with non Organic-certified oyster shells bearing the label of an Organic Certified mill, because they are concerned about what might be in the not organic-certified oyster shells harvested out of the same Gulf waters their not organic-certified oyster shells are...



and now I'm being impolite. Civil, perhaps, but impolite.

From the edible oyster..Abstract​

Oysters coming under the Genus, Crassostrea and Saccostrea are observed along the Indian coasts. Among them four species are considered economically important including Crassostrea madrasensis[1], Crassostrea gryphoides (Schlothein 1813), Crassostrea rivularis (Gould, 1850) and Saccostrea cucullata (Born, 1890). Crassostrea madrasensis, the dominant among them has been selected for this study. The procedure of analysis of the samples was based on AOAC 2005 standards. Flame Photometry, ICP and CHNS analysis was used to find out the precise values for Ca and Na; Sr and Mg; and C and S respectively in the shell of Crassostrea madrasensis. Calcium as calcium oxide was observed as the largest constituent at 47.49% closely followed by total Carbon at 43.87%. The remaining elements Sodium as sodium oxide at 1.119%, Magnesium as magnesium oxide at 0.619%, Sulfur as sulfur dioxide at 0.403%, Strontium as strontium oxide at 0.020% and water as moisture exist only in negligible percentages. The utilization of oyster shell relates to the chemical constituents which contribute more than 90% of the shell. In Crassostrea madrasensis, these elements have been identified as Calcium and Carbon and have been quantified as contributing on an average 91.36% by weight of the shell in this study. These can effectively be used in the pharmaceutical, fertilizer, lime, cement and poultry feed industries.

huh..calcium oxide as 47.49 %..so, just making up your facts? Accusing me of not having the studies? Maybe you should spend less time being snarky and attacking and getting your own facts straight..

 

[Katanahamon]

I've read Tilly's Nest - she links to one of the same sources I do regarding flax seeds, provides no sources whatsoever for her opinion re: Soy, and cites approvingly to a source regarding the use of oral contraceptives to reduce incidence of ovarian cancer in hens, which seems "contrary" to some of her other chemical free, non-gmo, organic recommendations. So no, no need to attack what isn't there, I can be merely dismissive.

Particularly as she didn't even address the known problems which will occur if chickens are fed an incomplete diet lacking in a limiting amino acid. Soy, together with other legumes, are very high in Lysine, which is largely absent in corn, barley, oats, wheat, etc as well as most nuts and seeds, such as sunflower. For optimum poultry health, that missing lysine needs to be provided either by the addition of a synthetic such as L-Lysine, or another high lysine source such as fenugreek, menhaden fish mean, or blood meal from an animal protein source (often pigs).

So, in answer to your question, "No". I find many of their conclusions unsupported.

And that’d be great if we were talking about flax, but, we weren’t.

 

[Katanahamon]

And that’d be great if we were talking about flax, but, we weren’t.

Gosh..how did we get on soy..? All I elicited was a concern for lack of knowing if oyster shells were tested for badness! Here’s another “out there in the blogosphere” source..granted, didn’t vet all their sources, but, here it is…
https://www.wellfedhomestead.com/should-chickens-eat-soy

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Abstract​

Oysters coming under the Genus, Crassostrea and Saccostrea are observed along the Indian coasts. Among them four species are considered economically important including Crassostrea madrasensis[1], Crassostrea gryphoides (Schlothein 1813), Crassostrea rivularis (Gould, 1850) and Saccostrea cucullata (Born, 1890). Crassostrea madrasensis, the dominant among them has been selected for this study. The procedure of analysis of the samples was based on AOAC 2005 standards. Flame Photometry, ICP and CHNS analysis was used to find out the precise values for Ca and Na; Sr and Mg; and C and S respectively in the shell of Crassostrea madrasensis. Calcium as calcium oxide was observed as the largest constituent at 47.49% closely followed by total Carbon at 43.87%. The remaining elements Sodium as sodium oxide at 1.119%, Magnesium as magnesium oxide at 0.619%, Sulfur as sulfur dioxide at 0.403%, Strontium as strontium oxide at 0.020% and water as moisture exist only in negligible percentages. The utilization of oyster shell relates to the chemical constituents which contribute more than 90% of the shell. In Crassostrea madrasensis, these elements have been identified as Calcium and Carbon and have been quantified as contributing on an average 91.36% by weight of the shell in this study. These can effectively be used in the pharmaceutical, fertilizer, lime, cement and poultry feed industries.

huh..calcium oxide as 47.49 %..so, just making up your facts? Accusing me of not having the studies? Maybe you should spend less time being snarky and attacking and getting your own facts straight..

"Flame Photometry" Its a physical and chemical process including disolving in various acids which transforms the original specimen, allowing its total calcium to be determined by way of the calcium oxide product created during the transformation proceses when then exposed to flame and the wavelengths of emitted light are then recorded.

Yes, your quote is from this source. Keep reading.

QUOTE:
The study conducted by Smith and Wright (1962)[17] in Crassostrea virginica was used as guideline for the present study. In the present study, among the chemical constituents analyzed like Calcium, Carbon, Sodium, Magnesium, Sulfur, Strontium and Moisture, Calcium and Carbon were present in high concentrations while all the remaining constituents were observed at low values below 1.5%. The concentration of Calcium carbonate in the shell of Crassostrea madrasensis constituted 91.36% by weight of the shell. This was lower than the value in Crassostrea virginica by Smith and Wright (1962) who recorded it at 95% by weight of the shell.

Smith and Wright (1962)[17] found that the Calcium (CaO) content in the shell of Crassostrea virginica was 54.6%. In the present study for Crassostrea madrasensis, the percentage concentration of Calcium (CaO) in the shell has been recorded at 47.49%, which is a 7.11% variation between the two species. Concentration of Total Carbon at 43.87% was observed to be very close to that of C. virginica at 43.5%. The concentration of Sodium (Na2O) in C. virginica was 0.32%, while in this study for C. madrasensis it is 1.12%. The analyzed value of Magnesium (MgO) in C. madrasensis shell was 0.619%, which is comparatively larger than the previous study

According to Smith and Wright (1962)[17] the Sulfur (SO2) and Strontium (SrO) of C. virginica are 0.16% and 0.12% respectively. But for C. madrasensis, it was observed as 0.403% and 0.02% respectively for these two elements. The concentration of moisture showed a slight variation between the two species, 0.58% in C. virginica and 0.804% in Crassostrea madrasensis.
/QUOTE

The Potential Use of Oyster Shell Waste in New Value-Added By-Product (at page 3)

QUOTE
he cleaned oysters can be reused in several applications. The principal component (approximately 96%) of oyster shells is calcium carbonate (CaCO3), which can be used in various sectors; for example, the construction industry, as an aggregate of limestone for cement, and even the pharmaceutical industry, as a calcium-enriched supplement [4,13].
/QUOTE


Etc...

That's a might fine virtual shovel you have there, perhaps you should stop digging?