"Pasty butt" question

Pullorum is salmonella, and that doesn't cause pasty butt. Naturally raised chicks that are with a broody hen don't get it. It is caused by dehydration, stress in shipping...
The number one symptom of any and all salmonella infections is diarrhea. This is true whether it is diarrhea in humans or diarrhea in chicks, and turkey poults. In the past the disease we know know today as pullorum salmonella, was called fowl typhoid, and before that it was known in the poultry industry as "White Bacillary Diarrhoea" (sp)

http://books.google.com/books?id=YxQxAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA84&lpg=PA84&dq=white+bacillus+diarrhea+in+poultry&source=bl&ots=nKDXBhvNbU&sig=TFqslI30ToziqVsp0OJ3VlQHB78&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Ck1YUe3OH4zY8gStqYDwBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=white%20bacillus%20diarrhea%20in%20poultry&f=false
Above is a link to a book first printed and copy righted in 1917. This was 96 years ago. This text book was authored by a man named T. E. Quisenberry and was published by the American School of Poultry Husbandry in Levenworth, Kansas.
Quisenberry wrote this book for farmers at a time when people but especially farmers spoke plainly and clearly, no cute pet names of diseases for Quisenberry. However, Quisenberry correctly describes pullurm salmonilla or fowl typhoid and identifies it as “White Bacillary Diarrhoea.” The spelling is Quisenberry‘s. “White Bacillary Diarrhoea” was easy for the farmers of 96 years ago to remember. On the other hand “Pasty Butt” would have meant a lazy wall paper hanger.


Here is another link that identifies White Bacillary Diarrhoea and describes it.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bacillary+white+diarrhoea
This is the old defination for “White Bacillary Diarrhoea” aka pullorum disease aka fowl typhoid aka pullorum salmonella.

bacillary white diarrhoea (noun)
- a serious bacterial disease of young chickens

bacillary white diarrhea, pullorum disease
animal disease - a disease that typically does not affect human beings
bacillary white diarrhoea (noun)
- a serious bacterial disease of young chickens

In order to demonstrate how fast human knowledge about our fine feathered friends advanced in the 40 years between Queensbury’s writings in 1917 when he calls Pullorum disease “White Bacillary Diarrhea” here is an English book on poultry farming copyrighted 40 years earlier in 1877. This book is from Harvard Universities’ library of old books. There is almost no mention about diarrhea of any kind in this book but there is a cure given for diarrhea. See what it has to say about treating diarrhea in chickens cia 1877. Good luck curing your chickens with this treatment. Unfortunately we now seem to be regressing to the 1877 level in the knowledge department.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/38606/38606-h/38606-h.htm#Page_150
I have raised or helped raise many 1,000s of chicks hatched under a hen. I have also raised a multitude of 1,000s of chicks hatched in an incubator and brooded on the floor of a special chicken house or in battery brooders. There is nothing inherent in naturally reared or organically grown chickens that provide any immunity from communicable chicken diseases. They are just chickens and their DNA can be and most likely is identical to all other chickens who have the same mama and daddy. In fact the opposite is true. Think about it, chickens from organic flocks have little or no natural immunity to most chicken diseases unless they have been vaccinated or exposed to these diseases. Vaccinated chickens are in my opinion non-organic and the organic non-vaccinated chickens are most likely dead already.
 
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... If it isn't pasty butt it could be failure to thrive which is a result of bad breeding in most cases....
For what ever reason some breeder fowl do not process minerals and vitamins in an efficient manner. The chicks produced by these fowl are never and will never be very healthy or vigorous. White diarrhea however is not one of the symptoms these chicks develop. If you hatch eggs from any of your birds and get chicks like those described by Chick_In_The_Burbs, eat their parents as soon as possiable if it takes you that long. Failure to thrive in any breeding flock means striving to fail
 
I have a pullorum certificate from McMurray...the chicks were also vaccinated...
update; I lost another just now...I don't know what to do. none of the ones that have died in the last 2 days had pasty butt
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I'm sorry about all of your loses. I'm interested to see how McMurray handles it. I've heard good reviews on their customer service. Of course good customer service doesn't help when you keep losing chicks.
 
What other symptoms do they have?  If it isn't pasty butt it could be failure to thrive which is a result of bad breeding in most cases.  Especially loosing as many as you have!  I lost six chicks from an order of 25 once, all due to failure to thrive, all chicks were smaller than their sisters and refused to eat.  All the same breed too and most of the losses were from the same color group.

That is exactly it only the blues and the silver ones affected until today lost the "rate free" chick today
 
:(  I'm sorry about all of your loses.  I'm interested to see how McMurray handles it.  I've heard good reviews on their customer service.   Of course good customer service doesn't help when you keep losing chicks. 
I just don't understand what's happening I've hatched eggs and did t have these kinds if losses. I emailed Mcmurray hope I hear back tomorrow.
The brooder isn't hot I've got a thermo in there and the first few days they were all eating drinking its do weird!
 
If the 'rare free' chick was a salmon Favorolles, I have received two from them and the second has nothing but issues. Pasty butt for two weeks followed by an eye infection at about *one week that still isn't cleared up. All the breeds I have received from McMurray have been strong but I have only ordered a handful of breeds at this point.

*edit to correct typo.
 
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If the 'rare free' chick was a salmon Favorolles, I have received two from them and the second has nothing but issues.  Pasty butt for two weeks followed by an eye infection at about ten week that still isn't cleared up.  All the breeds I have received from McMurray have been strong but I have only ordered a handful of breeds at this point.
No the rare was a cuckoo maran the rest blue andalusians. None of my hatched babies ever had this problem nor did my original dflock from the feed store just makes me worry about ordering more shipped chicks.
I expected them to have issues the first couple days but a week later? Well anyway changed the thermometer to the digital one I use in the incubator so I'll see if that's the issue.
 
A large multi national commercial broiler producer near me ships out special trucks every day that sometimes have as many as a quarter of a million peeps on board. These trucks go all over the United States, They could not stay in business if their customers experienced chick loses at the rate you describe. Something is wrong and in my humble opinion it isn't shipping stress.
 
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:(  I'm sorry about all of your loses.  I'm interested to see how McMurray handles it.  I've heard good reviews on their customer service.   Of course good customer service doesn't help when you keep losing chicks. 


Well I've lost a total of 9 chicks. I called MM and spoke at length with the customer rep and they were very kind and offered to replace the chicks. I thanked them and told them I had planned to order more but with the continued deaths I was worried about ordering shipped chicks again. Then this afternoon I receive an email order confirmation they are crediting me for the 9 plus 5 additional. I must say I was surprised and impressed. I had not expected that but I'm pleased that customer service is important to them also makes feel a lot better about ordering from them in the future. I know things happen and dealing with animals there are so many variables but they're willingness to work with me says a lot for their business.
 

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