Peace

[Oregon Blues]

I'd certainly lock myself in if there were a couple of Tyrannosaurus Rex sitting in the tree line watching my house. I wouldn't allow my human children or dogs out every day, either.

My birds have coyotes just waiting for a chance to invite them to dinner. They also have large safe runs. You seem to think that confining chickens means to give them each 1 1/2 square feet of dark space.

You do not know that chickens do not like confinement. You took your own feelings and applied them to your birds.

Is it "out" that your birds want, or the chance to look for food? If you had large runs with lots of food and treats and playground equipment, why would you think the birds were living in pure misery 24 hours a day?

My confinement is 1/2 an acre securely fenced. The ducks like to go out and eat grass and hunt bugs, but then they go back, all on their own, to nap inside their smaller run. So you aren't going to convince me that my birds "do not like confinement". If they didn't like confinement, they would not take themselves back to their smaller run in the middle of the day, and they would resist being shut into their night run at night.

They don't resist. They like their night run and they like their coop. I never put them into the coop; they go in all by themselves. I think that indicates that they don't perceive their coop as torture or abuse.

If you have a heavy predator load and you sit a round watching dozens of birds die and wish they didn't, but don't protect your birds, it is lousy animal husbandry on your part.

All livestock is confined to keep it safe. My horses like to run around, but they must stay inside a fence so they don't get hit by cars or annoy the neighbors. My cattle like to wander around, but they must stay inside a fence to keep them safe. My dogs are not allowed to wander at will because it is too dangerous for them.

Well, neither are my birds allowed to go wherever they want to go because it is my responsibility to keep them safe, healthy, and alive.

 

[duckinnut]

this pertains to soooo many threads on this subject saying lock em up....lock em in..... while simultaneously promoting care and love for your birds... I find it in conflict...

How can locked up birds be happy?? So I pose this question......would you choose total lockdown for yourself or a chicken version of you over freedom to live a normal life? I.e. if you could lock yourself away to "be safe" would you? or do you accept that life has risks to everyone but we need to accept that to fully live?


So yes a hawk, coon, etc could kill your chicken.....but do you deprive them of freedom to be chickens to protect them?

Car accidents are a leading cause of chilhood death....do you not drive your children?

Let me put this question to you. Would you let your children come and go as they please no questions ask to where they are going or where have they been or put themselves in harms way? I think it's all a delicate balance. The poll you proposed is slanted to where you can't compare chickens to people.

My chickens have the coop, the run and a penned area to roam. Between the pen area and run to which they are free to come and go is 1400 sq ft. of an acre property. I do let them out beyond that at times when I am around but have spent to much time, effort and money to feed the local wildlife. I am pretty sure that chickens can't even feel the emotion of happiness but I know mine seem to be very content by their healthy demeanor lounging in the sun taking a dirt bath and good egg production,being well fed and run to me when they see me. I don't think they want me to say "Ok girls run around the yard and become lunch for a coyote". That would be a disservice to them as I think they want me to protect them and in return they give me eggs. Not that they understand that concept but it is a trade off. If we really wanted them to free and have a normal life why keep them at all? Just raise them and let them go to fend for themselves. My run is covered so they can escape aerial attacks if need be but the pen is not. Granted I know that they like to explore the unknown and like to venture beyond but so do children. I been granted the trust to care for both of them and will not endanger either just so that they might be happy and put them at risk needlessly.

 

[jamband]

I'd certainly lock myself in if there were a couple of Tyrannosaurus Rex sitting in the tree line watching my house. I wouldn't allow my human children or dogs out every day, either.

My birds have coyotes just waiting for a chance to invite them to dinner. They also have large safe runs. You seem to think that confining chickens means to give them each 1 1/2 square feet of dark space.

You do not know that chickens do not like confinement. You took your own feelings and applied them to your birds.

Is it "out" that your birds want, or the chance to look for food? If you had large runs with lots of food and treats and playground equipment, why would you think the birds were living in pure misery 24 hours a day?

My confinement is 1/2 an acre securely fenced.

I

I am not applying feelings at all. they dont have human feelings they have instincts. Scratch, forage, breed, etc. many of which are denied in confinement. Maybe they like treats because its the best thing they get??


anyway I dont consider 1/2 acre for relatively few birds confinement.

yes ignoring predation is poor care taking but so is ignoring predators.....do something about the coyotes

 

[jamband]

Let me put this question to you. Would you let your children come and go as they please no questions ask to where they are going or where have they been or put themselves in harms way? I think it's all a delicate balance. The poll you proposed is slanted to where you can't compare chickens to people.

My chickens have the coop, the run and a penned area to roam. Between the pen area and run to which they are free to come and go is 1400 sq ft. of an acre property. I do let them out beyond that at times when I am around but have spent to much time, effort and money to feed the local wildlife. I am pretty sure that chickens can't even feel the emotion of happiness but I know mine seem to be very content by their healthy demeanor lounging in the sun taking a dirt bath and good egg production,being well fed and run to me when they see me. I don't think they want me to say "Ok girls run around the yard and become lunch for a coyote". That would be a disservice to them as I think they want me to protect them and in return they give me eggs. Not that they understand that concept but it is a trade off. If we really wanted them to free and have a normal life why keep them at all? Just raise them and let them go to fend for themselves. My run is covered so they can escape aerial attacks if need be but the pen is not. Granted I know that they like to explore the unknown and like to venture beyond but so do children. I been granted the trust to care for both of them and will not endanger either just so that they might be happy and put them at risk needlessly.

correct they don't feel happy as we do.......they feel an instinctual need to "be chickens" I was posing a "if u were a chicken" ???

You are associating them running to you as joy or happiness. its not. its training. they know you have good stuff.

There is no where in nature you will find confined birds.

As to your question I think its safe to assume everyday we are all in harms way in some way. Wet floors are dangerous, as are cars, falling trees, gmo's, radiation from microwaves, stairs, etc etc. If my choice was lock my kids up safe or let them go out and enjoy life knowing things happen. I choose the later.


stagnant runs have little/no grass, a decimated bug population, parasitic hosts etc........Bigger picture= raising confined animals is bad for the planet and us long term.

 

[centrarchid]

I am not so certain chickens lack feelings. They simply do not express them in a manner the typical human interprets. If someone like me recognizes possibility and you do not, then I may not be such a bad guy after all.


Go Games!

 

[ralleia]

I won't even answer a poll thus written.

Neither of the poll choices accurately reflect my own risk/reward views. Both choices are unreasonable.

 

[duckinnut]

correct they don't feel happy as we do.......they feel an instinctual need to "be chickens" I was posing a "if u were a chicken" ???

You are associating them running to you as joy or happiness. its not. its training. they know you have good stuff.

There is no where in nature you will find confined birds.

As to your question I think its safe to assume everyday we are all in harms way in some way. Wet floors are dangerous, as are cars, falling trees, gmo's, radiation from microwaves, stairs, etc etc. If my choice was lock my kids up safe or let them go out and enjoy life knowing things happen. I choose the later.


stagnant runs have little/no grass, a decimated bug population, parasitic hosts etc........Bigger picture= raising confined animals is bad for the planet and us long term.

When they jump up on my lap when I am just sitting in with them sans food, does that not signal contentment? I certainly did not "train" them that. I think you are making an assumption that everyone who doesn't let their chickens free range are letting them live in squalor and you would be wrong. You can do what you want and handle things any way you like but I feel you are passing judgement on people whom you don't know or privy to their setup who don't act,feel and think like you.

 

[jamband]

Feeling as humans do...I am not saying they dont have emotions. I am just saying that they dont have higer function and reasoning etc.....

 

[centrarchid]

Feeling as humans do...I am not saying they dont have emotions. I am just saying that they dont have higer function and reasoning etc.....

That used to be consenses concerning dolphins and great apes not our immediate kin. The lesser expectations I still have for much of the human population owing what appears to be what I refer to as being "temporally challenged flat-worlders" where they are unable to think about consequences many generations down road and do not see connectivity with systems / populations out of immediate sight.

 

[duckinnut]

Did I miss the thread title change?