Peafowl Ivermectin dosing

[Rattlerjake]

I said "false negatives" were common.

False negative is no different. Checking for parasites requires an individual to physically inspect the sample, whether blood or fecal, under magnification. A false positive or a false negative means the individual doing the check doesn't know what they're doing or it wasn't done!

 

[casportpony]

False negative is no different. Checking for parasites requires an individual to physically inspect the sample, whether blood or fecal, under magnification. A false positive or a false negative means the individual doing the check doesn't know what they're doing or it wasn't done!

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

 

[Rattlerjake]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Seriously? What a garbage reply!

 

[KsKingBee]

False-negative is no different. Checking for parasites requires an individual to physically inspect the sample, whether blood or fecal, under magnification. A false positive or a false negative means the individual doing the check doesn't know what they're doing or it wasn't done!

I tend to agree with you as I do home fecal exams and either I see the eggs or cocci or I don't. If I don't and have reason to believe I should I will run the test a second time. I am secure in my abilities to perform the exam properly so I trust my methodology and my results but I also know that many vet assistants are not properly trained or are not preparing the slide correctly or worse yet not caring enough to run the test properly. Many vets don't trust their own abilities and won't even do fecals at all.

 

[Vaughnr007]

Seriously? What a garbage reply!

What dosing do I need? I have two six month old peahens. Have Ivermectin (1% cattle/swine injectable) and want to mix in water. I have checked "Peafowl" threads and several of the worming threads. Still confused....Would appreciate your thoughts on the dosing numbers. Thanks

I had the same issue about how and what to use. The breeder I got my peafowl from gave a liquid by mouth. I saw the way they captured mine and didn't like the stress to the bird nor the fear the peafowl displayed. I wanted a gentle way. I found a couple of references to worming through their water. Here are the directions. 3ccs of Safeguard for Goats in a gallon of water. After removing all other water supplies, give this to your peafowl for 3 days straight using a fresh mixture each day. Repeat after10 days. Use this regimen 2x a year.
I tried this last fall after losing a bird. The result was apparent to me, more lively and active birds. I plan on repeating in the next several days before egg laying.
I hope this helps someone else before they lose a peafowl.

 

[KsKingBee]

I had the same issue about how and what to use. The breeder I got my peafowl from gave a liquid by mouth. I saw the way they captured mine and didn't like the stress to the bird nor the fear the peafowl displayed. I wanted a gentle way. I found a couple of references to worming through their water. Here are the directions. 3ccs of Safeguard for Goats in a gallon of water. After removing all other water supplies, give this to your peafowl for 3 days straight using a fresh mixture each day. Repeat after10 days. Use this regimen 2x a year.
I tried this last fall after losing a bird. The result was apparent to me, more lively and active birds. I plan on repeating in the next several days before egg laying.
I hope this helps someone else before they lose a peafowl.

This is exactly what has been the cause of worms building resistance to dewormers, it is the same as with antibiotics. When you under-dose with an amount that will not directly kill all of the worms the surviving worms build a tolerance to the drug being used. This is why Ivermectin does not work in many areas of the country.

The oral dose for a mature peacock is three ml per bird per day, the number of days is dependent on the types of worms you are trying to kill. Now, if you put the recommended dose in a gallon of water the only way the bird is going to get the full dose is if he drinks the entire gallon of the medicated water.

Think of it this way; you go to the doctor and the first thing they do is weigh you. The doctor sees you and prescribes a medication according to your weight and tells you to take two pills per day. You get the pills and decide to put the two pills in a glass of water, take a few sips, and throw the rest of the water away. How is that supposed to work?

If you want an easier way to dose the bird then put your three ml in a wet mash or mix it in some scrambled eggs, anything that the bird likes and will consume within an hour or so. I should mention that Safeguard is not water-soluble.

 

[Vaughnr007]

This is exactly what has been the cause of worms building resistance to dewormers, it is the same as with antibiotics. When you under-dose with an amount that will not directly kill all of the worms the surviving worms build a tolerance to the drug being used. This is why Ivermectin does not work in many areas of the country.

The oral dose for a mature peacock is three ml per bird per day, the number of days is dependent on the types of worms you are trying to kill. Now, if you put the recommended dose in a gallon of water the only way the bird is going to get the full dose is if he drinks the entire gallon of the medicated water.

Think of it this way; you go to the doctor and the first thing they do is weigh you. The doctor sees you and prescribes a medication according to your weight and tells you to take two pills per day. You get the pills and decide to put the two pills in a glass of water, take a few sips, and throw the rest of the water away. How is that supposed to work?

If you want an easier way to dose the bird then put your three ml in a wet mash or mix it in some scrambled eggs, anything that the bird likes and will consume within an hour or so. I should mention that Safeguard is not water-soluble.

@ KsKingBee First off thank you for all the support you provide to BYC. I watch all your responses to become a better person to raise my pets.
One of the biggest issues I have with responses is the lack of good information. I believe my response was to a thread about Using Safeguard (fenbendazole) for Goats but I maybe wrong. Ivermectin and Safe guard are 2 different wormers. Also, Ivermectin has several days of residual effect while Safeguard doesn't.
Apples vs oranges.
Each person needs to decide for their self. All we can do is provide our own information based on our experiences.

So I'm wrong. Are you advocating a different method? Is this the method you personally use, you don't say? In your explanation, what Invermectin are you using? Topical, oral, goats, cows? Where did you get this data? Each item has a different dewormer/ml. For instance, Safeguard for Goats has 100mg/ml. They recommend 2.3ml/ lb of weight for goats with possible treatment in 4 to six weeks. This is oral for a goats digestive system. This regime, I'm sure, has been adapted for peafowl. Also, fenbendazole will settle out hence the change every day or stir.
Here is the most important question for this discussion. Is there ANY commercial dewormer specific for peafowl, or any product company that gives directions for use in peafowl or any university/veterinary studies/publications available?
Currently, I'll stick with this BREEDERS regime until some published documentation comes along.
But your response has helped me in one way. I need to get a fecal check and learn how to do it myself.
Thanks again for your contribution

 

[Vaughnr007]

Here is a good article although not a study
https://unitedpeafowlassociation.org/articles/more-on-worming-and-disease/
Here is one study about fenbendazole in peafowl
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29348098/

 

[KsKingBee]

@ KsKingBee First off thank you for all the support you provide to BYC. I watch all your responses to become a better person to raise my pets.
One of the biggest issues I have with responses is the lack of good information. I believe my response was to a thread about Using Safeguard (fenbendazole) for Goats but I maybe wrong. Ivermectin and Safe guard are 2 different wormers. Also, Ivermectin has several days of residual effect while Safeguard doesn't.
Apples vs oranges.
Each person needs to decide for their self. All we can do is provide our own information based on our experiences.

So I'm wrong. Are you advocating a different method? Is this the method you personally use, you don't say? In your explanation, what Invermectin are you using? Topical, oral, goats, cows? Where did you get this data? Each item has a different dewormer/ml. For instance, Safeguard for Goats has 100mg/ml. They recommend 2.3ml/ lb of weight for goats with possible treatment in 4 to six weeks. This is oral for a goats digestive system. This regime, I'm sure, has been adapted for peafowl. Also, fenbendazole will settle out hence the change every day or stir.
Here is the most important question for this discussion. Is there ANY commercial dewormer specific for peafowl, or any product company that gives directions for use in peafowl or any university/veterinary studies/publications available?
Currently, I'll stick with this BREEDERS regime until some published documentation comes along.
But your response has helped me in one way. I need to get a fecal check and learn how to do it myself.
Thanks again for your contribution

Thank you for the response, I can see how my post was/is confusing but unfortunetly I can not edit it, there is no edit button. In my early years of raising peafowl I was following some pretty poor advise found here on BYC and on the internet. The worst is the claim that by putting three ml of Ivermec or safeguard in a gallon of water. I lost many birds and racked up a significant vet bill until my vet help teach me how to do my own fecals, first at her office then at home. You can do a search for Doing Fecal Exams at Home I started a few years ago.

My vet is the one that decided that our worms are not affected by Ivermectin and to use either Fenbendazole or Albendazole. Her other observations were that diluting the medication to a less than lethal dose was responsible for the loss of my birds, hence the 3cc per gallon mantra was debunked as it lacked a lethal dose to the worms.

The only Ivermec I use is the topical at a rate of 0.4ml per bird divided between three places on the birds skin. Withdrawal is a non-issue since we do not eat our birds or their eggs. We only use Ivermec for lice and do not depend on it for worms at all, for that we use either Safeguard orally or mixed in their feed or we use Valbazen orally dosed, mixed in their feed, or in the water but certainly not at the 3ml per gallon. Safeguard is not water soluable and should never be diluted which makes it very limited in its effectivness.

No there is not any medications that are made for and only used for peafowl, there is no money in it for the drug manufacturers so they rely on the big industries like chicken and turkey farms that buy huge quanties of their drugs. However there is extablished dosing information that I have shared her many times taken from the Veterinary Parasitology Reference Manual Fourth Edition. This is the manual my vet recommends and I use for medication dosing.

There have been many advancements to our knowledge since Ted Golka wrote his article in 1999. The biggest one for me is the use of Toltrazuril which is the only drug that actually kills cocci not just inhibit its growth.

I am sorry that my post only helped you in ONE way, I will try to do better in the future. If you would like more information on our methods of controlling cocci and worms please feel free to ask.

 

[Vaughnr007]

KsKingBee Oh, I missed communicated. Your information was very interesting and provocative. I've got several tasks to do as a result of your information. And as you said there's some poor advice on BYC so I now use caution when treating my pets.
Thanks again for supporting us newbies on BYC.

I am sorry that my post only helped you in ONE way, I will try to do better in the future.