Peafowl Standards

[Birdrain92]

Maybe what we could do is have in the "Peafowl Variety Handbook" or whatever we are going to call it have it so we use those photos that way we have a printed copy we can all print off as well as a digital copy that is found in http://peafowlimagedatabase.weebly.com/. Maybe have it part of the website if we could turn it into a document and then have it on the website that way people know about the website as well as can have a printed copy of it. Here's my idea:

Breeds:
Indian, Green (Indo-Chinese, Burmese, and Java) those are the Greens I know, and Spalding

Colors:
Indian Blue, Cameo, Peach, Violeta, Midnight, Purple, Bronze, Charcoal, Taupe.

Patterns:
Indian Blue: Original, Black Shoulder, Pied, White Eyed, and Silver Pied.

Have photos of these and then explain certain things like: Patterns will show up with each color but not all colors show up with each color. Explain splits, What makes a peafowl a Spalding, etc. Where should we put White as a pattern or a color because it's kind of both or at least that's what I learned?

Please suggest ideas, where we should put Whites, and the name of what we are going to call it. Of course we will give credit to those who are involved.

 

[Trefoil]

I hope that the Image Database is going to be a valuable resource, and lots of people have already made an effort to contribute images.
The fact is that I am just not knowledgeable enough to make executive decisions about the information that is included on the website.
I don't want to post inaccurate information, because then it won't be helpful to anyone.
So I would certainly appreciate any instruction or suggestions! Don't forget I'm only the "mechanic" of the database, definitely not the "brains"!

I used the opportunity to bring the database up so no one would forget about it. This is my only way to contribute since I am inept with both computer and camera. I'm still trying t find a detailed description of BS midnight.

 

[KsKingBee]

I used the opportunity to bring the database up so no one would forget about it. This is my only way to contribute since I am inept with both computer and camera. I'm still trying t find a detailed description of BS midnight.

X - 2 !

In order for the project to keep moving forward we need as many people as possible to contribute in making picture and commentary donations. The old adage of 'Many hands make light work' is very necessary here as we cannot put all the load of the main workhorse dedicating her time and efforts.

Clear detailed pictures is a must. When I look at the big breeders web site pictures, most of them are awful. Most of them take pictures of their pens and do not crop to show up close detail of plumage. Some only take pics of the cocks, very few have chick pics and that is where New 2 really shines in her idea of the database taking chicks to maturity.

Like as has been referred to earlier, we have a wealth of members here that can contribute both awesome photography, and very important knowledge. I, like Trefoil, am looking to help but we feel somewhat limited in our own resources but will help in any way we can.

 

[new 2 pfowl]

@Garden Peas - incidentally, I really appreciated your suggestion about using the UPA definitions, thank you for the idea!

I hope I didn't sound dismissive, I just don't know enough to be sure how to proceed with something like that.

@KsKingBee - thank you for that endorsement! Any value in the database only comes form those like yourself generously sharing images.

And @Trefoil - thank you again for bringing up the database. You've really been great about keeping it in peoples' minds!

 

[Garden Peas]

Well, the UPA publishes their approved variety list pretty widely... I think it is easy enough to say: "The UPA currently recognizes the following varieties of peafowl..." or words to that effect. Also, if you contact Jay Louden or @connerhills , they can give you more input about UPA. There's really quite a lot of us on both list serves.

My objection is not to a database or sharing information -- I think that is all to the good. Describing what birds are out there and currently being bred is helpful so that folks understand what they are looking at or what breeders are talking about. To the extent that we share information and serve as a resource to the community, that is helpful to all.

My objection would be to us making attempts to set up some kind of "standard" -- this is, if we try to say what birds are "supposed to" look like. I think that will cause all sorts of problems. I'm really strongly opposed to that. I do not want these efforts to be used in any way towards judging birds or the attempts of breeders to breed birds.

Does that make sense?

 

[Trefoil]

Yea, and I agree.

 

[BYC-user-174785]

Maybe what we could do is have in the "Peafowl Variety Handbook" or whatever we are going to call it have it so we use those photos that way we have a printed copy we can all print off as well as a digital copy that is found in http://peafowlimagedatabase.weebly.com/. Maybe have it part of the website if we could turn it into a document and then have it on the website that way people know about the website as well as can have a printed copy of it. Here's my idea:

Breeds:
Indian, Green (Indo-Chinese, Burmese, and Java) those are the Greens I know, and Spalding
There are believed to be subpsecies of India Blues in the wild as well as more than three subspecies of greens.
Colors:
Indian Blue, Cameo, Peach, Violeta, Midnight, Purple, Bronze, Charcoal, Taupe.

Patterns:
Indian Blue: Original, Black Shoulder, Pied, White Eyed, and Silver Pied.

Have photos of these and then explain certain things like: Patterns will show up with each color but not all colors show up with each color. Explain splits, What makes a peafowl a Spalding, etc. Where should we put White as a pattern or a color because it's kind of both or at least that's what I learned?

Please suggest ideas, where we should put Whites, and the name of what we are going to call it. Of course we will give credit to those who are involved.

I personally think that white is a pattern. With careful breeding you can know what color is concealed by the white. With my first ever white peacock that I had purchased I eventually found out he was a white indian blue split cameo peacock. One thing that is incorrect with the list is that you cannot put spalding with the peafowl breeds. They are hybrids. So any spalding bird of any color is a hybrid, will have varying amounts of green blood, and therefore will be harder to put a general standard on them, especialy with the work being done currently to get high percentage colored birds. What will be done with newer colors that are combinations of other colors?

 

[Garden Peas]

I think we are after descriptions, not standards.... which is why @new 2 pfowl started the new thread. Otherwise, I think what @Bluecreekfarms wrote is generally correct.

 

[MinxFox]

To ask some questions,, Who is going to say what is a standard bird of any color,, someone that has 20 Indian blues ? Who is going to pay for a printing of a standard ? Some time ago this was on a forum and I didn't think it would work then. The UPA has tried this and had trouble getting enough photos of better quality to use in a standard, although there are better cameras and a new generation trying . Read about the standard of perfection by the bantam association . This is what will need to be done. The UPA does have a standard of peafowl now but was never completed more of less for the want of someone to complete it.. Dennis Erdman of the UPA was working on it and it kind of dropped as the newer digital camera was up and coming.. I don't want to discourage any one, but don't start something that will not be finished .

I was thinking similar things, especially about who exactly will say what the standard will look like?

Then you have to remember that some varieties such as cameo and peach look different sometimes because their feather color fades, etc.
Due to bad records, people who don't know what kind of birds they have, etc I would say many India Blues in America have green blood in their ancestry, which would make them very low % spaldings and you wouldn't always know it by looking at them. Of course domestic India Blues are different from wild India Blues, and I believe that within the domestic population, there are size differences. You can't even state that a two year old peacock will have a short train with around 4 eye feathers, because as we have seen several people on here have had 2 year old peacocks that have had very mature trains.

Several photos of several different birds are very helpful to show people what a certain variety should look like, but the colors are dependent on the camera the photographer is using, and of course the photo should not be heavily edited or edited at all to preserve the true color.

Then with silver pied, pied, white eye, spaldings, etc those all are personal preferences. Many seem to think that loud pieds are the more desirable kind of pied. I wouldn't exactly say that. I considered my pied peacock Dragon as just a regular pied, and I thought his one white eye feather was very unique, so I would say some varieties have varying opinions for what the ideal bird looks like.
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Descriptions should always go along with photos (if possible) to help avoid confusion. I am a very visual person. Not everyone is, but for those that are definitely visual learners, it helps to provide photo references for people especially on your own personal website. A picture really is worth a thousand words. I can go into detail about how a pied peafowl is like an India blue peafowl but picture an India blue peafowl with random white splotches on it, similar to a paint horse. That is what a pied is! I could say all that and make you read it, or I could make you instantly understand what a pied looks like by showing you this:

The best thing though is seeing the bird in person. I like Bronze peafowl more after seeing them in person, and I especially like them more after getting a Bronze peacock eye feather from Blue Creek Farm!