Pedigree Database for Peafowl.

[casportpony]

There is a horse pedigree site that many horse owners use, www.allbreedpedigree.com, maybe something like it would work?

Try entering Secretariat, then pick the one by Bold Ruler.

 

[AugeredIn]

Ok, I am in tired mode this afternoon and I don't want to be the negative guy here, but I see two basic issues that will be incredibly difficult to overcome. Don't get me wrong they have been dealt with before but I think you need to add these issues to the discussion. I think finding software or developing a database is the easy part. The two difficult issues are as follows:

1. Who gets to be the final arbiter of the initial register? Every pedigree registry had to have a day one when no animal was registered. Then there was a period during which the initial animals were registered under the review of some person or group of people. Someone is going to get to be god. Who might that be?

2. What is the initial process to get registered? How do you go about setting up the process for initial registry? Are we talking DNA testing here? If anyone can get their birds registered what do we accomplish? And by the way what is pure bred in the case of peafowl? Does my peacock have to be bronze and bronze only or can he be split to blackshoulder, white eye, pied, etc...

I guess I am slightly confused about the goals of the registry. I totrally understand registry of wild bird stock, whether it is blue or green. Beyond that, yeah it would be cool to sya I have the fifth generation male from Bard Leggs original purple pair, but I don't see that as adding value. I see the value in the fact that Brad Legg (substitute your favorite breeder here) is a respected breeder so anyone buying from him has a high comfort factor.

I am taking cover. Don't hurt me too bad!

 

[frenchblackcopper]

I have 2 browsers open so I can start with questions asked on page 1 here.Mmmaddie13,in cases where multiple hens are in a breeding group,all hens would have their own individual number,such as a wingband-microchip-tattoo,ect,,any proof positive way that YOU as the breeder knows that bird from all your others.The Peacock in the group would be a definite as far as 100% 1/2 of the peachicks blood.Unless hens are caged in the late afternoon and each egg is proof positive identified coming from THAT hen,the arriving peachick could not have a 100% proven parentage,,BUT in cases with several like hens in a pen,the offspring would show that their parents are the sire,and one of the hens that is entered individually,but could have any hen on that breeding group for it's other parent.
In some cases such as mixed hens in the breeding group,,it maybe necessary to wait until the chick has grown or the chick could still be submitted with the hen 'group" as it's other parent.For instance an IB male in a pen with an IB hen,IB B/S hen,,and an IB pied hen (all three of the hens has their own permanent ID,Yet each hen would be entered in the breeding group) All chicks would be IB,,but once someone looks at your breeding-penning info,they would see there is a possibility a 100%IB Phenotype chick from this breeding group BUT Could carry B/S as well as pied.If you know the hen the egg came from,the chick is 100% verifiable,,if several hens are in the same breeding pen,the chicks parentage would show the "breeding group" of hens where it could have came from.
Arbor,,your post #10,,maybe an open username to allow anyone to see whats inside of the datase,but then another password to upload information? Your PM to me about making this an International Registry is GREAT since you live across the border.Your point about Java mutations is well recieved and understood.I still think as long as you know at least 1 parent 100% and can show all possible hens in the breeding group,it is a start.They should be added.
AugeredIN,Your question 1,,who gets to be arbitrator? I see this as an open honest attempt at starting something noone else has for peafowl.It will become an invaluable tool to everyone who uploads information which will be in public view.I don't see the need to police what is uploaded since each member who uploads information will be "tied" to that information by way of a user ID,or name.No we don't need porn uploaded but once again,the upload password should be requested with full information about that registrant to be made public such as your name,location,phone number,website (if you have one) contact information.This would also show your ID so those exploring and see your submitted birds could then check who owns that bird,ect. By having your own unique log-in ID everything submitted will be traceable,,yes?
Your question 2,,the initial registry of a bird would be soley based on what you know,or have found out thru your breedings of the genetics of that bird.I hatched a peacock and a peahen this spring from bssp hens with unknown sires since the hens was in an overflow breeding pen.Both of the chicks looks IB or Bronze in color at this time,but the male does NOT show any white on him but the peahen does have white flights and is starting to get frosted white feathers across her back.Since I do know their mom was a BSSP,,that would at least be a starting point to enter these chicks,with no information added about their peacock father.I think we have all found out that some wierd unexpected colored peachicks hatches from time to time from what we think are 100% pure colored parents.But we have to start somewhere.You ask what is accomplished if anyone can register birds? For a buyer or breeder who likes records they can look back on years down the road it's invaluable. Buyers can see the 100% known parents of their chicks,(if the hen is known to lay the egg) or see what hens Could be the mother of their chicks from that breeding group. Your reference to Bronze,split,b/s ect.,,upon entry of that particular bird you would have a picture and then information or notes about that bird,,if you know it carries the pied gene,make a note of it,,if it is split to b/s,make that fact known.
Those who use the database will enhance the database.I would hope it is only beneficial in every way,if nothing more it would give those who even submit pictures of their birds an internet exposure they may not yet have.Or allow others to see what breedings someone may be doing,or what birds they have and will be breeding in the future for those just getting started such as Mmmaddie13.

 

[Arbor]

,maybe an open username to allow anyone to see whats inside of the datase,but then another password to upload information?
Correct, a visitors username that will not allow for any changes to the database, this way allowing visitors to see the database and still use it as a breeder's directory if that is what we want. If a visitor should notice a particular bird, and want to inquire about said bird, they should be able to contact the breeder (whether this be controlled message to the breeder through the site without giving too much info, or a listing of contact info).

 

[Trefoil]

The value in this will be future use. As long as the information entered is accurate, the data base will be able in the future to give the breeder a very good idea what he's got, and what he can expect to get, at least color wise. I'm not so sure about the breeder group usage, only because guesses or maybes tend to taint the data. I can't see it increasing the value of the birds in and of itself, but the value would be there for the individual breeders. It would give a centralized uniform method of record keeping. The value of a pea is in its beauty, in both dogs and horses their value is in how closely related they are to a champion and the perceived status of the seller.

 

[Mmmatt13]

But what happens when that bird with unknown dam is the sire? It would make the pedigree so confusing with a sire on top and the "group name" in the dam side. This whole thing is just confusing to me. I understand the reasoning, but it just doesn't seem practical to me. Breeding is different when they are able to produce with multiple hens in a pen with one male. After one breeding group, any male offspring from that group wouldn't be 100% verifiable. Maybe I'm just not wrapping my head around it the right way, but it's just not clicking somehow. It's a great idea, I just don't see it working right after a few generations of breeding.

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Mmmaddie Your correct in birds that are entered without 100% known parentage.But keep in mind you have to start someplace.In a few generations forthcoming all birds entered will at least have a breeding group of known possible mothers with a 100% known Peacock as it's sire.I do not know nor have pictures of the parents of a lot of my birds here.So their lineage or parents cannot be entered into the database.Unless a breeder has chicks or young birds they have the parents of,even young birds cannot have a sire or hen entered as their parents.My birds that first started laying eggs this year (2 year olds) can be entered but since the parents cannot be loaded on some of these birds the tracing of peachicks can begin on the chicks I hatched from these birds this spring and summer.Granted not every bird first entered will have traceable genetics,but in my and your case,once I enter all my birds,you can then enter the chicks you got from me this summer and they will have traceable ancestors.

 

[Mmmatt13]

But once birds from a group start producing offspring, the sire of the next generation will only be 50% known, and decline from there, right?

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Peafowl entered as your initial "breeding stock" may not have known parents,all the chicks these foundation birds produce will have a 100% known sire,if only one Peacock is in the breeding pen,and no less than a "breeding group" of hens as their maternal line.As each new generation is hatched and added the generations of traceable parents will increase not decline.If you pen breed as myself , Arbor and Yoda does all offspring we would enter that we hatched this 2012 season should all have no less than a 1 generation pedigree because we do have the parents of these chicks.Anyone who buys fertile hatching eggs from someone who has breeding groups uploaded on the database would be able to start their hatched chicks with a 100% known Peacock sire and at least a hen breeding group as well.Those who get hatching eggs of mixed or unknown parents wouldn't be able to show 1st generation ancestors,the chicks they would hatch would be the first to be entered or uploaded into the database

 

[Arbor]

Basically, it will be up to the buyer to determine whether a group breeding is beneficial to them. Ideally, a known sire and dam would be the way to go. If the buyer wanted to know the genetics, they would have to look into all the genetic possibilities that the particular hens in the breeding group could pass on. I breed with a lot of multiple splits, and knowledge is everything when it comes time to decide what I will breed with what. Knowing approximate odds are important too. If you hatch only a few eggs, your chances are slimmer than if you hatch every egg a hen produces. Sometimes, I will ensure I have a trio, just to increase the odds a little bit more. But knowing both parents even carry the potential makes me feel that my breeding season was not wasted, even if I don't hatch out what I am after - next year Bronze BS