Pellet vs Free Range/Foraging

[Alagirl]

My land is quite good for this, minus the predation. It could easily support a feral flock. If I let them free range 100% of the time, I wouldn't have a flock within a week (maybe even less time). But I just get confused when some folks say that we shouldn't feed anything besides commercial feed and others who say that free ranging is better for them.

once upon a time I stepped into the middle of a dog food 'discussion'
The answers ranged from 'quality kibble' to 'home cooked only', one person going so far as to proclaim they'd rather shoot their dogs than feed them kibble!
In some aspects nutrition is well researched, in others there is still so much we do not understand. It's been a while since I read it, and it is no longer the newest stand of research, but at one time it was thought that secondary components of food, like color, had no influence on the nutritional value, but since then it has been proven to be different. So it does matter to eat foods of all colors (and not just Skittles)

Frankly, I think if we think about it too much, we get a massive head ache: the first bug flying in the coup has the potential to upset the carefully crafted balance in the bought food.
There is more to life though than the perfectly crafted food: playing in the sun, and snapping up something that is not on the mu every day!

I think if the well balanced food is available to the birds, the result will be ok.
you won't get perfect, because that is not what life is about.
Like somebody above stated, there is so much more to it than just the numbers on the feed bag. Sunlight, enjoyment, what have you.
I mean, I have to agree, I figured it would be much simpler, toss some grains and call it a day.
Then again I do not own a farm. I don't have a surplus of grains (Like my uncle had a bunch of lightweight stuff, left over from cleaning and sorting his harvest, mixed in with lord knows what other seeds) which also means I don't have the other good things, like the manure pile tp scratch on
Which has its own drawbacks: My dad was in the government side of agriculture. He one time commented on the nostalgia of the manure pile dwelling chicken, and the salmonella they would carry.

We do the best we can, with the means and info we have.
Tome to sip a Verpoorten, and call it a day

 

[raingarden]

I was so disappointed, yesterday, to learn that most insects are deficient in methionine. Methionine is a likely limiting factor; if your pasture doesn't provide birds or mammals or fish to your chickens, it likely won't take much free ranging to be overall detrimental to their health compared to commercial feed.

I have access to birds, mammals or fish that could be a source of methionine. But, getting it into the chickens can be problematic.

My birds turn their nose up at poultry processing waste, dead fish or dead rats dumped out on the ground. It will just lay there, attract flies and stink until the maggots start crawling out. The maggots they will eat, but wait, maggots are insects. Also the conversion from fresh tissue to maggots is probably only 10:1 or so.

I have made dry pelleted feed from dead stuff and flour, but it's a long difficult process.

So, does anybody have any tips make them more carnivorous?

 

[Perris]

the carefully crafted balance in the bought food

the key thing to remember about 'balanced commercial chicken feed' is that it is carefully crafted to supply the minimal ingredients required for the bird to grow to its intended weight or lay its intended number of eggs in its intended 6-week or 72-week lifetime at the lowest possible cost. When commercial food started, it was marketed as tonic or medicine or chemical food. They've done a terrific PR job on it in the century-odd it's existed.

 

[Perris]

So, does anybody have any tips make them more carnivorous?

they want live food, not carrion.

 

[raingarden]

they want live food, not carrion.

They're supposed to be omnivorous and scavengers. They do eat live minnows though. I haven't tried live rats.

 

[Perris]

They're supposed to be omnivorous and scavengers

that doesn't preclude them having preferences, like us. You asked for tips. In my experience, they are not keen on already dead animals.

 

[Alagirl]

the key thing to remember about 'balanced commercial chicken feed' is that it is carefully crafted to supply the minimal ingredients required for the bird to grow to its intended weight or lay its intended number of eggs in its intended 6-week or 72-week lifetime at the lowest possible cost. When commercial food started, it was marketed as tonic or medicine or chemical food. They've done a terrific PR job on it in the century-odd it's existed.

It is also subject to storing conditions and degradation of ingredients.
Again, perfection is nice to strive for, but not really obtainable

 

[Perris]

Perfection isn't the word I would use for commercial feed, in any state. Performance-enhancing is the term I'd use. And like with athletes who use such, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it does long term damage to their health - hidden by the fact that they are not intended to live long enough to show it.

 

[saysfaa]

...So, does anybody have any tips make them more carnivorous?

Maybe. My sample size is too small to say more than that.

I knew when I got them that I wanted them to eat a wide variety of things. So, I started offering the most attractive things I could think of when they were a few weeks old. A tomato slice, a few strawberries, clover, grubs from the garden, salmon scraps, radish tops, a slice of stump with creepy crawlies in and over it. I tried to offer something new every day of so - as different as possible.

There is very little they won't eat. Dead or alive.

Or it could have nothing to do with me and everything to do with who they are.

Spice loves to forage. It was really obvious from very early. She never stops hunting. She never stops hustling. She occasionally, rarely, stands still. It is inevitably because she was seen something she wants that is out of bounds and she is figuring out what she will try next to get it. My setup is a very bad fit for her. For months, I've been on the edge of giving her to my friends who free range their chickens. I'm sure she would be happier. Probably my other three or four would also be happier.

Spice both helped and hindered the others' learning curves. She has shown them how to go for food. And been so intent on it, and quick, that the others didn't get much chance to practice eating the more difficult options.

Anyway, it seems likely that willingness to eat a wide variety of things is both genetic and learned. If you want to work with the birds you have, then find the edges of what they will accept and push them gradually. In your case, try a bit of fresh, raw hamburger or fresh salmon skin chopped up or fresh scrambled egg served in their feeder. If they don't eat it within a half hour, take it away and try it again the next day. When they go for that readily, they have a new edge.

Work at that edge - try the same things on a board or in a bowl - assuming you don't want them digging through the feed in their feeder. If they won't eat that, back up a bit and feed it in the feeder again for a few more days. When they will eat it in the new place, you have a new edge. Work there - mix a small grub in with the hamburger or whatever.

 

[saysfaa]

...The maggots they will eat, but wait, maggots are insects. Also the conversion from fresh tissue to maggots is probably only 10:1 or so.

"Zhu et al. (2015) dried the fresh [house fly] maggots harvested from manure using microwave equipment and measured the nutrient contents, 55.32 ± 1.09% protein was contained in the dried maggots, which included 1.34 ± 0.02% methionine and 4.15 ± 0.10% lysine, indicating that larval feeding had converted organic waste into a highly valuable protein that can be used as a substitute for fishmeal...."

The other sources I found covered various adult insects and/or meal worms; none listed house fly maggots.

I don't know if house flies are an anomaly, or if house fly maggots are an anomaly, or if mealworms are an anomaly among insect larva, or if it matters what they ate, or if there is some other reason this study had this result. It is not enough evidence to say much more than it might be worth looking into if you want to feed maggots.

Let us know what you find if you look.

Edit to add. A quick look is showing sources promoting insects as food sources for people or livestock are consistently talking about high protein levels without specifying which amino acids for many insect species while, in the same articles, saying things like "...house fly maggots are high-protein (61%) feed with a well-balanced composition of the amino acids arginine, lysine, and methionine..."

And giving examples of successful use which support the difference - For example, other insects as feed for farmed rainbow trout (for which other research indicates methionine has not been considered very important) while house fly maggots as feed for turkey poults.

So, it looks like house fly maggots are the anomaly. But still with not enough checking into it to be sure.