Permethrin spray

[roosterhavoc]

Yes, I understand how it works, most of it spreads over the skin rather than entering the bloodstream, I use it on my dogs....just don't think it would work the same on birds as mammals( @Sue Gremlin would know) ....and don't want it in my eggs.

You may not want it in your eggs but it works the same as it does with dogs and cats.
Permethrin is still classified as a carcinogen as well.

 

[paneubert]

You may not want it in your eggs but it works the same as it does with dogs and cats.
Permethrin is still classified as a carcinogen as well.

Now that I googled around a bit, I wonder just how much would make it into an egg. @aart piqued my curiosity with her statement about it mostly staying on the skin and not entering the blood (since my understanding was that it DID enter the blood).

Check this out....

"The amount of fipronil taken into the body across the skin depends on the product formulation. Researchers applied a dose of 79% fipronil to the skin of rats and found that less than 1% of fipronil was taken into the body after 24 hours. When test animals have eaten fipronil, between 15 and 33% (goats) and 30 to 50% (rats) of the ingested dose was absorbed by the body. The rest of the fipronil was eliminated in the feces and urine."

So I know that doesnt address egg laying animals, and that maybe for egg layers a significant amount might come out in the eggs versus the urine or feces, but it does beg the question about how eating an egg from an animal that only absorbed 1% of the product would be any worse than the drop I get on my hand when I dose my dog. Or what I get from petting him over the next few weeks, etc...

All about each persons risk aversion level I suppose. Whatever floats your boat.

Anther anecdote, somewhat more related to birds.

"Fipronil was found to be highly toxic to some birds, but practically non-toxic to ducks."

 

[roosterhavoc]

Now that I googled around a bit, I wonder just how much would make it into an egg. @aart piqued my curiosity with her statement about it mostly staying on the skin and not entering the blood (since my understanding was that it DID enter the blood).

Check this out....

"The amount of fipronil taken into the body across the skin depends on the product formulation. Researchers applied a dose of 79% fipronil to the skin of rats and found that less than 1% of fipronil was taken into the body after 24 hours. When test animals have eaten fipronil, between 15 and 33% (goats) and 30 to 50% (rats) of the ingested dose was absorbed by the body. The rest of the fipronil was eliminated in the feces and urine."

So I know that doesnt address egg laying animals, and that maybe for egg layers a significant amount might come out in the eggs versus the urine or feces, but it does beg the question about how eating an egg from an animal that only absorbed 1% of the product would be any worse than the drop I get on my hand when I dose my dog. Or what I get from petting him over the next few weeks, etc...

All about each persons risk aversion level I suppose. Whatever floats your boat.

Anther anecdote, somewhat more related to birds.

"Fipronil was found to be highly toxic to some birds, but practically non-toxic to ducks."

Exactly. I’ve read all the studies and reports I could find. I’ve been using it for years.
I use the feathers from a lot of my birds though so I have a slightly different goal than most. I don’t want any bugs on my chickens at all and I do everything in my power to prevent them.
The frontline spray will last a long time too. The bigger $55 bottle will last quite a few years for anyone with under 100 birds and that’s spritzing them 1-2 times a year not every couple weeks like permethrin. To each their own.

 

[Sue Gremlin]

It's fair to be concerned about egg residues. It's VERY hard to find something that will work, have residual, yet not get into the eggs. If this something exists, it has to behoove someone to pay a lot of money to do the research to get it approved by the EPA.
There are topical permethrin products that are labeled for chickens with no egg and meat withdrawal. Honestly my brain is fried at the moment and I can't remember if it's in the US or other countries and/or what these products are called. Permethrin is safer in birds than fipronil, which I know lots of people have used safely, but I would use it with extreme caution.

 

[aart]

One of the main reasons I grow my own eggs and meat is to avoid chemical residue.

 

[roosterhavoc]

I live in an agricultural area surrounded by fields of crops that are routinely sprayed just like most around the country.
That’s pretty much a pipe dream nowadays imo. It’s a nice thought though.

 

[aart]

I live in an agricultural area surrounded by fields of crops that are routinely sprayed just like most around the country.
That’s pretty much a pipe dream nowadays imo. It’s a nice thought though.

Every little bit helps imo.

 

[Folly's place]

Fipronil isn't approved for any food animal species, almost or actually everywhere. What's fine to use on pets is not the same as using it on livestock! It does appear in egg yolks if hens are treated with it. And, studies on mammals don't necessarily apply to avian species at all.
Mary

 

[roosterhavoc]

Fipronil isn't approved for any food animal species, almost or actually everywhere. What's fine to use on pets is not the same as using it on livestock! It does appear in egg yolks if hens are treated with it. And, studies on mammals don't necessarily apply to avian species at all.
Mary

They taste just fine.

 

[4EverOrp]

Total mite kill ingredients ~

Total Mite contains a permethrin insecticides for rapid knockdown, and is also a multi-purpose cleaner.

- Kills mites, red mite, fleas, lice and other flying and crawling insects
- Cleans & Disinfects your chicken coop and animal housing
- Kills bacteria, virus, yeast, algae and fungi (i.e. E.Coli, Salmonella, Listeria and Ps Aeruginosa)
- Oily base penetrates deep into cracks, crevices and corners which parasites commonly use as harbourages
- Contains excellent residuality on all common surfaces.

Contains: Permethrin 2.3%, Tetramethrin 0.23%, Benzalkonium chloride. Do not spray on birds or animals, avoid contact with skin.

So the ingredients aren't that different to the fly spray I got yesterday.....

"Ready for use Fly Spray. Can be used to control Flies, Moths, Mosquitoes, Ants, Mites, Lice etc. 0.25% Permethrin, 0.125% Tetramethrin, 0.75% Piperonyl Butoxide"

I'm doing the maths in that case....

Total Mite Kill Concentrate - 500ml makes 5 Lites - costs around £12.00
Read for use fly spray - 5L - cost me around £17.00

So the Total Mite Kill is definitely the way to go next time. Thanks so much for helping!