Pheasant Chicken Hybrids

[De Wet]

Both de wet and Tony.... I respect you both. Always have. Anyone willing to pay 200+ on a single bird that requires like 20ft per bird... Well that's someone dedicated to resurrecting a breed.
But you guys have to pick your fights.. And this is not one you should've picked. Think of it this way. Do mules destroy horse breeds? No. Even though some 10% of female mules are fertile, how often do you see:
Mule for sale!
Father was an Arab, Mom a mule (Appaloosa x Belgian)
$2,000

I mean, really?
I highly doubt that cheasents are going to be a marketed breed, they aren't destroying a breed. Like its been said, probably around 90% of cheasents will be infertile. And then, will a chicken be able to breed with ALL pheasants? Some may have odd genes that don't correspond with chickens, thus breeding near impossible.
Is a geep (sheep x goat) destroying goats or sheep? No. (Although breeding near impossible)
You guys can breed the purest of the pure of these rare pheasants.. Anyone willing to put that much into a bird is highly unlikely to breed them with other pheasants or chickens. If so, then your more likely to have to worry about @$$holes selling cross breeds (pheasent cross breeds) as pures then you'll have to worry about cheasents.. While these bird resemble pheasants, the fact that they have chicken shows obviously...
So you guys can talk about being a BYC educator or call us 'kids' because we don't believe a mule is going to destroy an entire species of pheasent.
Is breeding an Ohiki w/ a austrolorp going to destroy the entire breed of chickens? Course not! Label them as backyard crosses then sell them, butcher em, keep em as pets but just because the accident happened your entire gene pool isn't ruined.
Like I said, you have to worry about @$$holes selling known cross breeds as pures then some cheasents who are likely infertile.

I see what you mean and understand but the problem is now you show the world there is a possibility to hybrid species some species you don t get infertile which is fertile the fact is you advertise the whole world you can hybrid birds and I can tell you I don t worry what you and you gang said you think you do good but you do harm cause everybody is trying to hybrid everything and you well get a mesh rather use the time you waste and breed the rare species or can t you affort it? now you want to play with this evil deeds. I bed you if no one ever have tried the hybrid thing cross breed will not ever exist and we will have still pure lady amherst pheasants and pure trogopans and no spaldings but that is people like you who actually i make way this species is gona die out one day.

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

Both de wet and Tony.... I respect you both. Always have. Anyone willing to pay 200+ on a single bird that requires like 20ft per bird... Well that's someone dedicated to resurrecting a breed.

But you guys have to pick your fights.. And this is not one you should've picked. Think of it this way. Do mules destroy horse breeds? No. Even though some 10% of female mules are fertile, how often do you see:

Mule for sale!

Father was an Arab, Mom a mule (Appaloosa x Belgian)

$2,000


I mean, really?

I highly doubt that cheasents are going to be a marketed breed, they aren't destroying a breed. Like its been said, probably around 90% of cheasents will be infertile. And then, will a chicken be able to breed with ALL pheasants? Some may have odd genes that don't correspond with chickens, thus breeding near impossible.

Is a geep (sheep x goat) destroying goats or sheep? No. (Although breeding near impossible)

You guys can breed the purest of the pure of these rare pheasants.. Anyone willing to put that much into a bird is highly unlikely to breed them with other pheasants or chickens. If so, then your more likely to have to worry about @$$holes selling cross breeds (pheasent cross breeds) as pures then you'll have to worry about cheasents.. While these bird resemble pheasants, the fact that they have chicken shows obviously...

So you guys can talk about being a BYC educator or call us 'kids' because we don't believe a mule is going to destroy an entire species of pheasent.

Is breeding an Ohiki w/ a austrolorp going to destroy the entire breed of chickens? Course not! Label them as backyard crosses then sell them, butcher em, keep em as pets but just because the accident happened your entire gene pool isn't ruined.

Like I said, you have to worry about @$$holes selling known cross breeds as pures then some cheasents who are likely infertile.

I see what you mean and understand but the problem is now you show the world there is a possibility to hybrid species some species you don t get infertile which is fertile the fact is you advertise the whole world you can hybrid birds and I can tell you I don t worry what you and you gang said you think you do good but you do harm cause everybody is trying to hybrid everything and you well get a mesh rather use the time you waste and breed the rare species or can t you affort it? now you want to play with this evil deeds. I bed you if no one ever have tried the hybrid thing cross breed will not ever exist and we will have still pure lady amherst pheasants and pure trogopans and no spaldings but that is people like you who actually i make way this species is gona die out one day.

Oh gosh, that hurt my eyes to read. Seriously. Legibility, ever heard of it?
Due to the fact I can't really understand it I'm gonna do my best.
First off, humans are curious beings. Wether it was an accident or purpose for the first pheasent cross, we obviously liked it. That's why we cross breed things, make new colors, have breed standards. So it's not 'people like you', it's just human nature. By the way, if it was people like me, we wouldn't have pheasents. I don't own pheasents, but I apologize if I don't puke at the sight of cross breeds
2nd off, what are you doing to make wild populations have more birds? Unless you are actively breeding birds to release, or donating towards the populations, it's only a matter of time. Once the wild pheasents go extinct, it's only a matter of time before their extinct. Not enough people are willing to put $900 into a single bird and need 20ft of space for it. Not enough to keep them alive.


So while you can keep breeding your pures, ill admire them, others will too, perhaps even have some, but unless the wild population is actively growing then its just a matter of time.

Anywho, can we just stop arguing? We both have different opinions, both respectable. This thread was meant to show what a cheasent looks like as it grows, can we just admire the cheasents and get along?

 

[chooks4life]

Well said CochinBrahmalover! Somebody's got to have some commonsense...

@De Wet:

People respect and support Tony's dedication to pheasants, but some of what Tony's said has made no sense. He isn't addressing the actual issue. There's no lack of comprehension on our part, and there's absolutely no need to stoop to insults. We are addressing the hybridization of ONE mutant pheasant with a chicken. It was not deliberate. But now chicks have arrived, it is being documented. That's all.

There is no slur to Tony, so you have no need to start calling people 'kids who can't understand his intelligence' when he can't even talk about the same thing everyone else is, nor make sense when questioned despite his offers to explain. We all understand Tony, you and others are worried about this becoming a fad. It's already been a fad, failed, which has been well documented, and look, purebred pheasants persist despite it. If anything this thread will put people off bothering to try to hybridize, because of the difficulty and almost guaranteed failure... It's just history repeating.

Tony leave this bunch of kids here they want to play here your intelligence are to big for them to understand, which a lot of us have respect for... actually this byc forums are gettin bored on pheasants... every day the same thing and debate with kids with the same thing

Really? Every day you debate the hybridization of a single mutant pheasant hen with a rooster posing a threat to the entire species?! Wow, the species are further gone than I thought then, LOL!

I see what you mean and understand but the problem is now you show the world there is a possibility to hybrid species some species you don t get infertile which is fertile the fact is you advertise the whole world you can hybrid birds and I can tell you I don t worry what you and you gang said you think you do good but you do harm cause everybody is trying to hybrid everything and you well get a mesh rather use the time you waste and breed the rare species or can t you affort it? now you want to play with this evil deeds. I bed you if no one ever have tried the hybrid thing cross breed will not ever exist and we will have still pure lady amherst pheasants and pure trogopans and no spaldings but that is people like you who actually i make way this species is gona die out one day.

Several wrong or contentious statements there...
1) Hybridized pheasants with other species have been documented for a long time. They are very, very rare. But not unheard of. Therefore nobody is 'showing the world' it can be done... The world already knew.

2) Evil deeds?! A bit steep don't you think? First we're kids, now we're committing evil deeds?

3) Even if people never tried to breed hybrids they would still exist, so you lose that 'bed'/bet you made; animals in the first place occasionally succeeded in hybridizing, people originally didn't attempt to cross such different animals. That became a recent fad especially after the advent of the theory of evolution. In this case, there was no artificial insemination or deliberate attempts, it was simply a case of a male and female of different species finding one another attractive, and some fertile eggs being hatched. Evil eggs, and evil chicks, owned by an evil person, it seems, who should have had the sense to keep this a secret and hide the evidence.

4) Blame pheasant breeders for deliberately crossing different types, not the owners of random chook/pheasant hybrids. It's not people like the threadstarter who make sure the species is going to die out, it's a combination of things with environment loss and hunting being among the top few to blame. The majority of the blame for pheasant's current status does not fall on this person's hybrids nor others who tried to hybridize them. Talk about misplaced! I see more pheasants being mismanaged by breeders who don't keep chooks than I do by those who do keep chooks. Basically NOBODY bothers trying to hybridize them. This has blown out of proportion.

5) We are not a 'gang' --- just not so breed-fanatic that we can't abide the thought of a non-specimen animal hybridizing with another species.

@Tony:

Your right I will say no more and help no one on here again.

Your posts aren't helping anyone on this thread, because you're not addressing the issue. You have explained how breeding mutant or crossed pheasants endangers the species, which I'm fairly sure everyone already knows, but you have not explained how one mutant hen crossed with a rooster will render pheasants extinct. Nobody's disrespected you, in fact everyone's supported and commended you for your conservation efforts. But it's not relevant to this thread.

Now if I said these words like they have about me I would be banned as I have in the past.

Who said what to you that deserves a ban? Nobody insulted you as far as I saw.

My simple position is to try and save pheasants from extinction,but I guess you guys know more then I do about them.

Nobody here is claiming to know more about pheasants than you. Nobody here is attacking your position on trying to save pheasants. You yourself have commented on the need for pure genes. The hen in question is already not fit to continue these pure genes, being a mutant. So it's a moot point. Your actual issue, I am guessing, would be with a person who is not even present: whoever bred the mutant hen in the first place.

As you can see in my avatar it says I am a byc educator.I did not apply or ask for this position.I guess the mods felt that my input was valuable.But you guys don't seem to think so.

If only you could address the actual issue, your input here would indeed be valuable. Otherwise you're just repeating stats on breeding and species status which some of us are already familiar with, but which have no actual relation to the topic at hand.

Anyway, best wishes. Cochinbrahmalover already said it best, I guess. This one unfit-for-conservation hen crossing with a rooster to make almost certainly infertile hybrids poses no threat to the species. If's not a new area of interest, if it was so valid a threat it would already have come to decimate the pheasant family. Moot point. This thread is educational and interesting... When we're not debating at cross purposes on different subjects!

@Clint:

Obviously you have never checked into the genetics of the birds you have bought wanting them to be pured......that's why those other that Tony who say "we are raising the for re-introduction...." "to save them from extiction..." are false...does it matter...yes....look at the IUCN protocols....

Clint

I think you've misunderstood CochinBrahmalover's post. And Tony is NOT the only person breeding pheasants for reintroduction... Tony himself quoted several others, and obviously, there are many more. Best wishes all round. What a mountain made of a molehill... A very misunderstood molehill.

 

[bemba]

I'm actually going to set up a pen with a ringneck male, a frizzle hen and a naked neck hen! Both frizzle and NN are semi dominant so a percentage of the hybrid young would get these traits!

 

[chooks4life]

I'm actually going to set up a pen with a ringneck male, a frizzle hen and a naked neck hen! Both frizzle and NN are semi dominant so a percentage of the hybrid young would get these traits!

Might I suggest you obtain a mutant ringneck or a crossed one so as to not threaten the species further? There's actually no shortage of pheasants unfit to carry on the species, in my experience. But some are less judgmental than me regarding traits to cull for.

Part of a pheasant's beauty is in its feathering, and a frizzle or naked neck gene dominating a pheasant's feathering would rather dull it down in my opinion. As you doubtless know, you will likely spend a long time trying to get hybrids, then spend a long time trying to get any to survive to adulthood, then spend even longer trying to breed them. Personally I'd rather work on developing my own breeds of animals, but each to their own.

There are plenty of mixes getting about in Australia, I'd think it's the same for any place there are pheasants; not that I see any pheasants often, but when I have, it's usually crosses between two different types of pheasant. Some of the genetics here are terrible. I don't consider those birds a waste of good genes.

Most pheasants I see in small and private zoos are deliberately crossed or hybridized. There is one zoo out near Broken Hill that had hybridized their lone ringneck male with their peacocks, and they also had guinea fowl hybridized with peacocks. The results were mangy-looking, weak creatures that were antisocial to eachother and everything else, didn't live long, and didn't look as beautiful as either parent. But zoos in particular like hybrids, they bring in visitors and visitors bring in money. The ringneck had a serious eye affliction they weren't treating him for. I offered to treat him but they'd paid a stupid amount for him, and wouldn't let me, even though I didn't want to move or keep him.

In a nutshell, those who are keen enough to try hybridization despite the knowledge of almost certain failure, will try; most of us will never bother. Hybrid animals is a popular google search and pheasant hybirds feature in the results, but there's been no avalanche of people buying pheasants just to try it.

 

[De Wet]

Oh gosh, that hurt my eyes to read. Seriously. Legibility, ever heard of it?
Due to the fact I can't really understand it I'm gonna do my best.
First off, humans are curious beings. Wether it was an accident or purpose for the first pheasent cross, we obviously liked it. That's why we cross breed things, make new colors, have breed standards. So it's not 'people like you', it's just human nature. By the way, if it was people like me, we wouldn't have pheasents. I don't own pheasents, but I apologize if I don't puke at the sight of cross breeds
2nd off, what are you doing to make wild populations have more birds? Unless you are actively breeding birds to release, or donating towards the populations, it's only a matter of time. Once the wild pheasents go extinct, it's only a matter of time before their extinct. Not enough people are willing to put $900 into a single bird and need 20ft of space for it. Not enough to keep them alive.


So while you can keep breeding your pures, ill admire them, others will too, perhaps even have some, but unless the wild population is actively growing then its just a matter of time.

Anywho, can we just stop arguing? We both have different opinions, both respectable. This thread was meant to show what a cheasent looks like as it grows, can we just admire the cheasents and get along?

I don thave time to read this esay you wrote here this will my last post here. like you said people will be currious and that s is why we must stop and tell him what will be cause of his selfish ideas if I type a species in wikipedia and it is vunreble or near threated they say what is the cause, but this time it will different cause for example, it will say extinction due to selfish breeders on forums what think they know everything, hybrid birds who make s the way for crossbreed, no more birds in their pure form than their will be a link what will say "list of disgrace of nature" and you name will apear on the wall of shame. Thru curiousness people try everything every time it get out of hand and they can t control it anymore and their is many examples for this, if I can get it to birds for interesting type in red jungle fowl in wikipedia and you will find out actually it is on the edge of extinction of no more pure breeds because they cross with the domesticated in the nearby vilages in their habitat what the human created not nature because it get out of hand. Yes hybrid you get infertile but look on the other side what it actually can cause. But I know you allready make up your mind and what you said will not change my view of this and I will always talk angainst it. But what is the saying what you sow you will reap it is like a pig rolling in his own mud and a dog eat his own puke...

 

[RedBaron]

I'm actually going to set up a pen with a ringneck male, a frizzle hen and a naked neck hen! Both frizzle and NN are semi dominant so a percentage of the hybrid young would get these traits!

Hey Bemba, It might have more of chance of working if you use a frizzle rooster with a ringneck hen. The pheasants are more into displaying for the hens and trying to impress them whereas the roosters are more into taking charge of the situation ... at least this is what I've observed. I can't imagine those combinations would be very pretty, but who knows?

 

[RedBaron]

I don thave time to read this esay you wrote here this will my last post here. like you said people will be currious and that s is why we must stop and tell him what will be cause of his selfish ideas if I type a species in wikipedia and it is vunreble or near threated they say what is the cause, but this time it will different cause for example, it will say extinction due to selfish breeders on forums what think they know everything, hybrid birds who make s the way for crossbreed, no more birds in their pure form than their will be a link what will say "list of disgrace of nature" and you name will apear on the wall of shame. Thru curiousness people try everything every time it get out of hand and they can t control it anymore and their is many examples for this, if I can get it to birds for interesting type in red jungle fowl in wikipedia and you will find out actually it is on the edge of extinction of no more pure breeds because they cross with the domesticated in the nearby vilages in their habitat what the human created not nature because it get out of hand. Yes hybrid you get infertile but look on the other side what it actually can cause. But I know you allready make up your mind and what you said will not change my view of this and I will always talk angainst it. But what is the saying what you sow you will reap it is like a pig rolling in his own mud and a dog eat his own puke...

This is your last post here? ... Oh geez I really hate that.

You've called us kids, pigs, dogs, ... did I miss anything? Maybe it's a cultural thing and these are terms of endearment among your people.

 

[RedBaron]

As an update, the cheasants are growing fast and are shapped like little footballs now. I'll get some new pictures when I get a chance.

Although they were a happy accident, I must admit I've tried this in the past, but I had them reversed (male pheasant to a female chicken) and it didn't work.

I'd really like to get a fertile male from this that I can breed back to a chicken. This shouldn't be a problem for anyone ... chickens are a hybrid man-made creation. Thousands of years ago they combined different species of junglefowl. So, if someone long ago hadn't hybridized their birds, we wouldn't have chickens today. No eggs, no hot wings, and we'd be eating Kentucky Fried Pheasant or Duck.

Oh, and in the Spring there are every kind of pheasant egg you can imagine for sale on Ebay. People have tons of them and most probably eat the ones they can't sell ... they make good French Toast and scrambled eggs. So I don't feel "evil" at all for hatching a few that I would have eaten anyway.

 

[jammyjammy2112]

Can't wait to see the pics of them now and lets all just forget about tony and de wet and see what the worlds like in 30 or 40 years maybe with or without pure pheasants