Pheasants cross breeding

[TV]

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I don't think what the "Purists" are referring to are the naturally occuring mutations you refer to. They mean the intentional use of species that are rare or endangered in the wild to create unstable and un-sustainable varieties. Most people don't even ralize how rare these birds are, even in captitvity, because for the most part they are so reasonably priced. $ does not = common. They may not survive in the wild and if they are not maintained in captivity, will become extinct. Look at certain pheasant species this has happened to already such as peafowl. The genie is already out of the bottle with spauldings and isn't going back in. It is rapidly happening with the green peafowl subspecies which are being crossed to produce "pure greens" and as pointed out to me recently by a peafowl expert that most breeders oculd not tell you the subspecies by sight alone. As keepers of these magnificent animals we must accept the responsibility of good stewardship to see to their preservation and perpetuation. Of course as always, when you purchase an animal it is your right to do with it as you will but please put a lot of thought into it first. What is the best and right thing to do, not just to satisfy vanity. Whatever you do, ALWAYS be honest with everyone about it.

 

[Charliet]

i was done but some commints got me to thinking why does anyone have pheasants, did you wake up one morning and decide wow pheasnts need saving and start buliding pens for them or did you say wow those are pretty i like to have those when you were at someones house who had them. Secondly why does anyone keep the certain birds they keep, if you are wanting to save them it would seem as any would do as they all need saving, why do you wait a whole year to get some certain pheasant in the fall when some one has pheasants now you could get that need saving just as much , why are you willing to fork out several hundred dollars on satyr or tems when a pair of cheer only cost about 90 a pair and need in my mind more saving than tems and satyrs at this point as very few people have cheers or edwards. i will tell you why because you want them and you think they are pretty and most people are willing to fork out money on trags ,impyeans because they are so darn pretty as well as other higher priced pheasants. that is why alot of people got started in pheasants and that is why people have mutations and pure .if you want to start keeping them to save them then go right ahead but dont froget why you have them in the first place

 

[Reeves]

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At this present time, there are no DNA tests available to test for purity.
(when/if one ever does become available, I for one, will be using this method)

 

[Reeves]

Charliet

I'm not going to say some people have not gotten into this by not thinking a bird is "pretty". Some very likely do.

But at some point in their life, they become knowledgeable about the species they are keeping. It is at this point they will see the bigger picture, and want to help each species they choose to keep.

I myself had been raising them since I was a kid, and my father before me (I'm 54 now).

Most people choose a few species to work with. Very few people can deal with every one of them.

Some Tragopans are truely in trouble. No idea where you are getting your information....

I have chosen the species I have, and the ones I'm getting, for a number of reasons.
I'll always have Reeves. One main reason being, their "abundant character".

As for money, it isn't an issue at all. I'll go to extremes to ensure I get new blood lines in each male/female.
If you have seen pictures of my aviaries, you'll notice they are much larger than most.

I also do not sell (or give) any of my birds to persons I do not approve of.

I'm not in this to make any money, at all.

 

[maloga]

I will state point blank there are some pheasants I simply would not crossbreed for any reason within reason. While I do not overly mind the hybrid/use use of common or at least CITES least concern. I would not consider making hybrids of the tragopans or bulwers pheansant. The rarer they are the more I am leaning toward keeping them in a wild state of purity. Now if they reach the point of diminishing returns then I would breed them with something else if for no other reason to save part of them. Also do not think for a minute that I would not do what it takes to save a species even if CITES laws may not agree with my methods. Sometimes captivity under the care of experts is the only safe place for a species. Color mutations is a survival of the fittest thing for me. I have seen albino squirrels living in the wild so I will not kill a color mutation just because it is a mutation. My general feeling is that I will not go out of my way to breed a mutation unless it is an advantage to the species. Say I have a pheasant that can fly long distances like a regular bird. That may be a handy mutation for the species. I think we are starting to reach a level of initial domestication that our ancestors reached with other early attempts at livestock. There will be some that maintain the wild and some that want domestication. Neither of which really bother me. Exotic beauty has always appealed to me. I have seen some hybrids and mutations that are stunning. But I know of species that are just as stunning. Another thing I have noticed is that the mutations tend to occur in the pheasants that are easiest to raise. With the rising level of difficulty less mutations occur because less animals survive. It has been this way for a long time because the difficult breeds are still difficult even after being in captivity for hundreds of years. The easy to raise models will always be more mutation filled because lots of breeders have the birds in general.
Something I would like to see done in the future is the importation of wild Reeves, Golden, Lady Amherst, Silver pheasants and quite a few other pheasant species. I am talking several hundred birds from at least that many locations. That genetic marker idea could then be started and our birds could be tested and classed versus the genetic marker differences between the species. Plus it would add some depth to the gene pool that in this country possibly enough to be that even if they went extinct in the homeland they would be of a quality here to be acceptable. If only for the genetic diversity. Maybe someone will organize a non-profit to do just that.

 

[Charliet]

reeves and maloga i agree with you i would never in my wildest dreams think of crossing trags or any rare and endangered or any pheasants my self and i hope to soon be working with cabot tragapans in the near furture they are my favorite but will cost me out the wazoo. i see some of what yall are talking about and while i have not changed my mind completly i will still have some mutations of the golden but i will only raise a few and sell to people i trust to keep them sperated form true birds and to sell them as they are no matter what and who know in 6 mo to a year i may think like yall

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

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[Tony K T]

If you think like us now.You won't look back and say,"What have I done,I killed generations of pure birds,those guys on BYC were right."And you single handedly saved 7 years of pure birds in just 6 months.Now wouldn't that make you feel a lot better?
See the difference is the people who care are avriculturist,the people that want to raise pheasants are hobbyist.Stewardship is the only way to preserve pure birds,lets all practice it and save the pure birds .Then we can leave the drama crap to the chicken breeders.
In N.H.,Tony.
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[JJMR794]

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Reeves, Tony=== I'm with you!

 

[JJMR794]

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Do Not Confuse Evolution with Mutation. As well as the fact that there are 2 forms of mutation--- the natural form and the abortions we can create. Evolution will happen dispite our best efforts at a pace we will likely never notice. Natural mutation will happen at natures will wether the stock is pure or not, un-natural mutation rest directly on the keepers/ breeders shoulders and has far reaching effects on the hobby as whole wether done as a back yard jobber or as a professional aviculturist. Playing mad scientist with these speces is something that will be done wether we care for it or not--- the problem here is lack of regulation. Theres no control of what you, I, or anyone else does with birds in their posession... The resultant problem is this- while you may be the most devoutly strict mad scientist and practice all the right behaviors and sales restrictions and whatnot, once 1 of these is gone from your care there is no way of controlling whats done with it from that point== this is the far reaching problem so many purists realize and working toward discouraging. 1 that gets mixed up in a pure stock contaminates the whole gene pool here, and them thier offspring go forth and further muddy the pool and so on and so forth.... before you know it the gene pool now looks like the inside of your septic tank. Yes there are some truely gorgeous creations out there--- no one will deny that. Unfortunately there is a rampant lack of conrol over what happens with these beautiful creations and that is what directly effects the speces as a whole, and the entire section of the aviary world related to it.

Think of it this way... How did the allied forces retake and free europe in WWII? they got a toe hold on a beach and then kept goin... This is the same effect the man made mutations have on pure speces. We see what the end result of that was... The end result of this will likely be the same if not corrected early.